Drawn

Pathetic. I’ll give the Art Director of EW benefit of a doubt and say that maybe he forgot about Ullman’s sample (they do get A CRAPLOAD of submissions weekly) and truely believed this was his original concept. A cynic might argue the originality of Ullman’s idea- but regardless he should have given Ullman the assignment no question. Just common couresty, if a struggling freelancer (and trust me we are ALL STRUGGLING!) sends you a sample with an idea so strong you make it a spot in the magazine- YOU HIRE THE DAMN ILLUSTRATOR!!

Reminds me of a story I was told by a comic. He was watching a friends act with a “Big Time Headliner” comic and his friend told an original joke that killed the audience. The Headliner said, “that’s really funny, I think I’ll USE that.” Once the headliner steals that joke, being famous, he’ll luckly get credit for it. sad….

Pathetic. I’ll give the Art Director of EW benefit of a doubt and say that maybe he forgot about Ullman’s sample (they do get A CRAPLOAD of submissions weekly) and truely believed this was his original concept. A cynic might argue the originality of Ullman’s idea- but regardless he should have given Ullman the assignment no question. Just common couresty, if a struggling freelancer (and trust me we are ALL STRUGGLING!) sends you a sample with an idea so strong you make it a spot in the magazine- YOU HIRE THE DAMN ILLUSTRATOR!!

Reminds me of a story I was told by a comic. He was watching a friends act with a “Big Time Headliner” comic and his friend told an original joke that killed the audience. The Headliner said, “that’s really funny, I think I’ll USE that.” Once the headliner steals that joke, being famous, he’ll luckly get credit for it. sad….

Possible solution: Ullman write the Art Director and call him out in the most polite and respectful manner. Intentional or not the AD might fell inclined to give Ullman a big job or steady work….

Good luck with whatever u do Robert!
(sorry for the blab fest guys I guess this hit a nerve with me)

Possible solution: Ullman write the Art Director and call him out in the most polite and respectful manner. Intentional or not the AD might fell inclined to give Ullman a big job or steady work….

Good luck with whatever u do Robert!
(sorry for the blab fest guys I guess this hit a nerve with me)

I do agree it’s a little underhanded on the part of EW — they probably should have hired him for the job. The Rock-em, Sock-em conceit isn’t necerssarily a cliche, but it certainly isn’t so original that Ullman should feel like he has ownership of it. I think Ullman might be damaging himself by publicly bitching about it. It just doesn’t pay professionally to burn your bridges that way.

BTW, j, your comic story reminds me of something similar I heard about Milton Berle — he once passed a young comedian a note after watching his show: “I laughed so hard, I nearly dropped my pencil!” I guess swiping is just a part of the creative life…

I do agree it’s a little underhanded on the part of EW — they probably should have hired him for the job. The Rock-em, Sock-em conceit isn’t necerssarily a cliche, but it certainly isn’t so original that Ullman should feel like he has ownership of it. I think Ullman might be damaging himself by publicly bitching about it. It just doesn’t pay professionally to burn your bridges that way.

BTW, j, your comic story reminds me of something similar I heard about Milton Berle — he once passed a young comedian a note after watching his show: “I laughed so hard, I nearly dropped my pencil!” I guess swiping is just a part of the creative life…

isn’t putting people’s heads on Rock-em, Sock-em Robots not a new idea? I feel like I’ve seen it in so many different places

isn’t putting people’s heads on Rock-em, Sock-em Robots not a new idea? I feel like I’ve seen it in so many different places

i agree. This idea is pretty cliche, and airing greivences publicly seems a little tacky.

i agree. This idea is pretty cliche, and airing greivences publicly seems a little tacky.

I had a similar thing happen as well. Last year I self published a cartoon humor magazine titled Jokester (insert shameless plug here http://www.jokestermag.com) which had MAD magazine type stuff as well as section gag cartoons and a section comic strips. I had been in touch with the editor of MAD because he called me after I sent him some samples of my work and a copy of my magazine and lo’ and behold a few months later, a feature called The Strip Club appeared in MAD which was a section of comic strips… Now, you might say I started it by copying MAD but hey, copying MAD is a right of passag for cartoonists…

Anyway, there’s no way for me to know that they weren’t thinking of putting strips in the mag before my brilliant mag found ther way to their offices but I like to think that they thought it was a good idea so I can continue to think of myself as one of the most forward thinking visionaries of the 21st century :-)

I had a similar thing happen as well. Last year I self published a cartoon humor magazine titled Jokester (insert shameless plug here http://www.jokestermag.com) which had MAD magazine type stuff as well as section gag cartoons and a section comic strips. I had been in touch with the editor of MAD because he called me after I sent him some samples of my work and a copy of my magazine and lo’ and behold a few months later, a feature called The Strip Club appeared in MAD which was a section of comic strips… Now, you might say I started it by copying MAD but hey, copying MAD is a right of passag for cartoonists…

Anyway, there’s no way for me to know that they weren’t thinking of putting strips in the mag before my brilliant mag found ther way to their offices but I like to think that they thought it was a good idea so I can continue to think of myself as one of the most forward thinking visionaries of the 21st century :-)

It’s a great idea, but you can’t copright an idea. Besides, the EW version is stronger. It’s in color, first of all. Secondly, the heads are photographic so there is no question who they are. In the illustration, is that Al Franken vs. LBJ?

It’s a great idea, but you can’t copright an idea. Besides, the EW version is stronger. It’s in color, first of all. Secondly, the heads are photographic so there is no question who they are. In the illustration, is that Al Franken vs. LBJ?

Definately read everything on the link.

Mr. Ullman never attempts to call the Rock’em Sock’em idea his original, he merely raises an eyebrow at the timing of such an illustration appearing and featuring one of the same opponents as in his sample.

It may be considered unfortunate but it happens that concepts are gleaned from everyone, and everything, everywhere. The issue here is just the timing, that’s what draws this event to light.

Is it blatent? Perhaps, perhaps not, even Mr. Ullman doesn’t make such a claim. I hope that the attention he gets for addressing his concerns does not overshadow his talent.
That would truly be unfortunate.

J.

Definately read everything on the link.

Mr. Ullman never attempts to call the Rock’em Sock’em idea his original, he merely raises an eyebrow at the timing of such an illustration appearing and featuring one of the same opponents as in his sample.

It may be considered unfortunate but it happens that concepts are gleaned from everyone, and everything, everywhere. The issue here is just the timing, that’s what draws this event to light.

Is it blatent? Perhaps, perhaps not, even Mr. Ullman doesn’t make such a claim. I hope that the attention he gets for addressing his concerns does not overshadow his talent.
That would truly be unfortunate.

J.

OFF TOPIC–
The “J” commenter at 11:26 am IS NOT ME who made the first 2 comments earlier.
[For all of you missing the strange irony: someone else is using “my” name on a post about plagurizing!

OFF TOPIC–
The “J” commenter at 11:26 am IS NOT ME who made the first 2 comments earlier.
[For all of you missing the strange irony: someone else is using “my” name on a post about plagurizing!

THE OTHER J WROTE:
“i agree. This idea is pretty cliche, and airing greivences publicly seems a little tacky.”

Who said PUBLICLY?! I offered the idea of writing a –PRIVATE– “Gentlemen’s Letter” to the Art Director- NOT the LETTERS TO THE EDITOR page! That would be the kiss of death!

WAY OFF TOPIC:
I miss Uncle Milty

THE OTHER J WROTE:
“i agree. This idea is pretty cliche, and airing greivences publicly seems a little tacky.”

Who said PUBLICLY?! I offered the idea of writing a –PRIVATE– “Gentlemen’s Letter” to the Art Director- NOT the LETTERS TO THE EDITOR page! That would be the kiss of death!

WAY OFF TOPIC:
I miss Uncle Milty

sorry… i didn’t take note of your name the first time I posted. I usually use “J” as a quick name… obviously we should both look into looking something more distinctive.

In response, my original post was not referring to your statement. I meant the ILLUSTRATOR publicly airing greivences in his blog (which would NOT look good, should the AD find out). In fact, I agree with most of your original post.

sorry for the miscommunication.

sorry… i didn’t take note of your name the first time I posted. I usually use “J” as a quick name… obviously we should both look into looking something more distinctive.

In response, my original post was not referring to your statement. I meant the ILLUSTRATOR publicly airing greivences in his blog (which would NOT look good, should the AD find out). In fact, I agree with most of your original post.

sorry for the miscommunication.

I think both pieces suck, so who cares who’s idea it was or whatever.

I think both pieces suck, so who cares who’s idea it was or whatever.

Neither the first nor the last time this sort of thing will happen, sadly. And it’s not necessarily limited to this field. I have an actor friend who improvised a bit in a commercial audition, didn’t get the gig, but when the commercial aired the bit she did in her audition was used. Maybe it’s a coincidence, maybe not. But in this kind of situation, I think you have to just cut your losses and move on.

Neither the first nor the last time this sort of thing will happen, sadly. And it’s not necessarily limited to this field. I have an actor friend who improvised a bit in a commercial audition, didn’t get the gig, but when the commercial aired the bit she did in her audition was used. Maybe it’s a coincidence, maybe not. But in this kind of situation, I think you have to just cut your losses and move on.

Jason Campbell quite nicely sums it up. I didn’t and don’t accuse anyone of stealing anything, I just observed that the timing and circumstances were…well, kinda weird, honestly. Am I wrong?

I never expected this to become such a moulage, as Barney Fife would say. My fault, I suppose, for posting it on my blog…I figured I’d vent a bit the few friends who read the blog would chime in to sympathize, and that’d be it. Didn’t figure it’d blow up and end up on Drawn, obviously. But I feel like it’d be…disingenuous, I guess, and a bit cowardly to remove the post now.

I just ask folks to consider my POV before making a judgement. And that goes double for any art directors out there…I’m really a joy to work with! I can’t afford to get blacklisted…hell, I’m barely listed!

Jason Campbell quite nicely sums it up. I didn’t and don’t accuse anyone of stealing anything, I just observed that the timing and circumstances were…well, kinda weird, honestly. Am I wrong?

I never expected this to become such a moulage, as Barney Fife would say. My fault, I suppose, for posting it on my blog…I figured I’d vent a bit the few friends who read the blog would chime in to sympathize, and that’d be it. Didn’t figure it’d blow up and end up on Drawn, obviously. But I feel like it’d be…disingenuous, I guess, and a bit cowardly to remove the post now.

I just ask folks to consider my POV before making a judgement. And that goes double for any art directors out there…I’m really a joy to work with! I can’t afford to get blacklisted…hell, I’m barely listed!

This doesn’t strike me as very unique- the art was done in completely different fashions. Even my school newspaper had the idea to represent running candidates as rock em’ sock em’ robots. It isn’t a revolutionary idea.

This doesn’t strike me as very unique- the art was done in completely different fashions. Even my school newspaper had the idea to represent running candidates as rock em’ sock em’ robots. It isn’t a revolutionary idea.

Miscommunication was also my fault “J”..

Another point to add to your comment of not going BLOG PUBLIC is that there’s always a possiblity of a number blog readers who might feel inclined to email mean letters to the AD-with or without your knowledge.

A mailbox full of angry emails written on Ullman’s behalf would piss off the director more than any blogpost cuz it getting into his personnal space.

Miscommunication was also my fault “J”..

Another point to add to your comment of not going BLOG PUBLIC is that there’s always a possiblity of a number blog readers who might feel inclined to email mean letters to the AD-with or without your knowledge.

A mailbox full of angry emails written on Ullman’s behalf would piss off the director more than any blogpost cuz it getting into his personnal space.

You know and I know that the letter you’re suggesting will just freeze him out at Ent Weekly. They will not appreciate being called out for this. THe damage is probably done by now anyway, with the airing (public airing- the internet is for everyone) of his perceived greivance against them. Either way you’re SOL, pal.

As for the idea not being original? When was EW original? They probably accidentally bit his idea, but that’s not even the point, really. This kind of idea has been seen before. I remember a friend of mine thinking that an AD had ripped off his idea of (I swear!) big-headed caricatures! The fact that people have been doing these for hundreds of years didn’t mean anything to him. Most ideas are rechurnings of earlier ideas. Doesn’t mean they’re wrong or terrible. It just means that people have a tendency to come up with the same ideas from time to time.

You know and I know that the letter you’re suggesting will just freeze him out at Ent Weekly. They will not appreciate being called out for this. THe damage is probably done by now anyway, with the airing (public airing- the internet is for everyone) of his perceived greivance against them. Either way you’re SOL, pal.

As for the idea not being original? When was EW original? They probably accidentally bit his idea, but that’s not even the point, really. This kind of idea has been seen before. I remember a friend of mine thinking that an AD had ripped off his idea of (I swear!) big-headed caricatures! The fact that people have been doing these for hundreds of years didn’t mean anything to him. Most ideas are rechurnings of earlier ideas. Doesn’t mean they’re wrong or terrible. It just means that people have a tendency to come up with the same ideas from time to time.

I’m with all the people who say that putting peoples’ heads on Rock ‘Em Sock ‘Em Robots is not such an original concept that it MUST have been stolen… I mean, seriously — not by a long shot.

I wouldn’t do anything about it at all — just file it under “oh well.” It’ll just make the artist look like a presumptuous ass.

I’m with all the people who say that putting peoples’ heads on Rock ‘Em Sock ‘Em Robots is not such an original concept that it MUST have been stolen… I mean, seriously — not by a long shot.

I wouldn’t do anything about it at all — just file it under “oh well.” It’ll just make the artist look like a presumptuous ass.

This is not the first time I’ve seen celebrity heads attached to robot boxing toys. In fact the concept of celebrities boxing one another is completely overdone and thoroughly saturated throughout the major magazines.

Robert Ullman might fair better if he conceptualized and came up with something novel on his next promo. Just think, you might actually get hired too…

This is not the first time I’ve seen celebrity heads attached to robot boxing toys. In fact the concept of celebrities boxing one another is completely overdone and thoroughly saturated throughout the major magazines.

Robert Ullman might fair better if he conceptualized and came up with something novel on his next promo. Just think, you might actually get hired too…

Jeez-us looka all this Ullman hate:
I just realized something: Ullman’s story wasn’t posted here so we could argue whether he was right or wrong.

It was posted here only as a hypothetical basis for the argument- If an art directors “inspiration” for a spot should be rewarded or even recognized.
This is what we should be discussing, not if Ullman’s drawing sucks or not. Jason’s post is a good reminder.
(this is my last post- even I’m tried of my own voice)

Jeez-us looka all this Ullman hate:
I just realized something: Ullman’s story wasn’t posted here so we could argue whether he was right or wrong.

It was posted here only as a hypothetical basis for the argument- If an art directors “inspiration” for a spot should be rewarded or even recognized.
This is what we should be discussing, not if Ullman’s drawing sucks or not. Jason’s post is a good reminder.
(this is my last post- even I’m tried of my own voice)

so like, should people get credit for a lame idea that 100 other idiots can think of at the same time? I say NO. The very notion would bring an undue burden to our film/software/music/auto/(u-pick the industry). I would even go as far to say that there are no original ideas ever. Get over it.

so like, should people get credit for a lame idea that 100 other idiots can think of at the same time? I say NO. The very notion would bring an undue burden to our film/software/music/auto/(u-pick the industry). I would even go as far to say that there are no original ideas ever. Get over it.

But here is an original idea.

Rockem Sockem Robots on an AIRPLANE!!!

But here is an original idea.

Rockem Sockem Robots on an AIRPLANE!!!

MANY years ago, I was a student cartoonist with my own website featuring my cartoon-animal based comic strip. I actually received an email from a certain currently syndicated cartoonist asking for help on his website (this was when the web was first coming into the public mind). I gave him some advice and help. He said he’d mention my aiwork to the syndicates. But during one of our exchanges, commenting on my work, he said, he wish he had an animal-themed comic strip. About a year later, the syndicates gave him one in addition to his current strip. I certainly didn’t invent cartoon animals. I have nothing but my own personal knowledge of our relationship and what subsequently transpired. The fact, he quit communicating with me shortly after saying that speaks volumes. Our friendship, and his recommendation to the syndicates — gone.

Just get used to established “artist” borrowing heavily from hard-working up and comers. When you make it, you can return the favor by stealing from students again. While I was in college, this older semi-famous sculptor kept running into us at gallery shows for younger unestablished artists. We said it was nice he supported the younger struggling artists. He said he came to steal ideas, with a big grin.

MANY years ago, I was a student cartoonist with my own website featuring my cartoon-animal based comic strip. I actually received an email from a certain currently syndicated cartoonist asking for help on his website (this was when the web was first coming into the public mind). I gave him some advice and help. He said he’d mention my aiwork to the syndicates. But during one of our exchanges, commenting on my work, he said, he wish he had an animal-themed comic strip. About a year later, the syndicates gave him one in addition to his current strip. I certainly didn’t invent cartoon animals. I have nothing but my own personal knowledge of our relationship and what subsequently transpired. The fact, he quit communicating with me shortly after saying that speaks volumes. Our friendship, and his recommendation to the syndicates — gone.

Just get used to established “artist” borrowing heavily from hard-working up and comers. When you make it, you can return the favor by stealing from students again. While I was in college, this older semi-famous sculptor kept running into us at gallery shows for younger unestablished artists. We said it was nice he supported the younger struggling artists. He said he came to steal ideas, with a big grin.

I don’t think that was no stinkin’ coincidence!

I had something very similar happen to me. To make a long story short, about 18 years ago me and another friend/artist came up with a novelty idea to create a glow in the dark condom. We did a patent research…ect…ect. The condom manufacturer we went to to buy our idea was shot down. Less than six months later, they were on the market by that manufacturer. I was pretty young and naive at that time.

I don’t think that was no stinkin’ coincidence!

I had something very similar happen to me. To make a long story short, about 18 years ago me and another friend/artist came up with a novelty idea to create a glow in the dark condom. We did a patent research…ect…ect. The condom manufacturer we went to to buy our idea was shot down. Less than six months later, they were on the market by that manufacturer. I was pretty young and naive at that time.

Robert , here is am idea. Do a new drawing and paste or draw your face on the robot socking the other robot with the company’s logo on the other head and with it exploding. Send it along with your original drawing and the recent one with the copied version. Sock to them. Whamo!!!! Tit for tat.

Robert , here is am idea. Do a new drawing and paste or draw your face on the robot socking the other robot with the company’s logo on the other head and with it exploding. Send it along with your original drawing and the recent one with the copied version. Sock to them. Whamo!!!! Tit for tat.

Yikes, that does suck…
I’m sure I’ve been guilty of seeing something somewhere that suddenly comes to me as a stroke of creative genius in a panicked moment of deadline induced freakout.

Yikes, that does suck…
I’m sure I’ve been guilty of seeing something somewhere that suddenly comes to me as a stroke of creative genius in a panicked moment of deadline induced freakout.

Yikes, that does suck…
I’m sure I’ve been guilty of seeing something somewhere that suddenly comes to me as a stroke of creative genius in a panicked moment of deadline induced freakout.
Though this does seem a little too close to the mark timing-wise…

Yikes, that does suck…
I’m sure I’ve been guilty of seeing something somewhere that suddenly comes to me as a stroke of creative genius in a panicked moment of deadline induced freakout.
Though this does seem a little too close to the mark timing-wise…

Ideas are not copyrightable. Concepts are not copyrightable. Only the physical manifestation of those concepts by a particular artist/group of artists is copyrightable.

Having done my share of Rock’em Sock’ems (though in reverse of what was done here), I can definitely say that the idea is not new or novel (hell, I stole it from Tenatious D lyrics).

Ideas are in the commons, must be in the commons, and we all need to remember that those commons are where we all look to for inspiration. Yes, I agree it might have been bad form for the AD to see the idea and then use it without even giving Rob Ullman a shot at it, but you’ve got to expect that to happen now and then when you send samples out.

The commons must remain common, with fair use to all of us who do creative work. Maybe that’s commonunism, but it is the only way creativity willl thrive.

Ideas are not copyrightable. Concepts are not copyrightable. Only the physical manifestation of those concepts by a particular artist/group of artists is copyrightable.

Having done my share of Rock’em Sock’ems (though in reverse of what was done here), I can definitely say that the idea is not new or novel (hell, I stole it from Tenatious D lyrics).

Ideas are in the commons, must be in the commons, and we all need to remember that those commons are where we all look to for inspiration. Yes, I agree it might have been bad form for the AD to see the idea and then use it without even giving Rob Ullman a shot at it, but you’ve got to expect that to happen now and then when you send samples out.

The commons must remain common, with fair use to all of us who do creative work. Maybe that’s commonunism, but it is the only way creativity willl thrive.

Above, of course, I meant to type GRIEVANCE. Please make the correction.

Above, of course, I meant to type GRIEVANCE. Please make the correction.

Not quite off topic but there was a small NPR report that addresses the difficulty defending spin-offs or other people producing art that is just too close to comparison for comfort.
What is it really?
Piracy or lack of originality?
NPR: New England Artisan’s fight cheap Chinese knock-offs

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4772832

Not quite off topic but there was a small NPR report that addresses the difficulty defending spin-offs or other people producing art that is just too close to comparison for comfort.
What is it really?
Piracy or lack of originality?
NPR: New England Artisan’s fight cheap Chinese knock-offs

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4772832

Off-topic: Keith Olbermann is da man.

The fact that it was the same people leads me to believe it could be a stolen idea, but it is a common idea, so I wouldn’t jump to comclusions.

Off-topic: Keith Olbermann is da man.

The fact that it was the same people leads me to believe it could be a stolen idea, but it is a common idea, so I wouldn’t jump to comclusions.

In this Information Age that cherishes notions such as Knowledge Management and “Spin” (as a PR/Marketing device and, it seems, a way to govern) how can there any longer be a question of the value of ideas? NOUN the VERB already, this illustration ILLUSTRATES the commodity in question. YES the originator ought be paid. How much more of a connection needs be DRAWN?! NOT compensating the originator is not moronic, its greed, the growing acceptance of a lack of professionalism/ethics and thievery.

In this Information Age that cherishes notions such as Knowledge Management and “Spin” (as a PR/Marketing device and, it seems, a way to govern) how can there any longer be a question of the value of ideas? NOUN the VERB already, this illustration ILLUSTRATES the commodity in question. YES the originator ought be paid. How much more of a connection needs be DRAWN?! NOT compensating the originator is not moronic, its greed, the growing acceptance of a lack of professionalism/ethics and thievery.

To Frank Davis: And Just who is the originator?
Mattel created that toy over 35 years ago. If I were Mattel I’d be pissed at Ullman and EW.

To Frank Davis: And Just who is the originator?
Mattel created that toy over 35 years ago. If I were Mattel I’d be pissed at Ullman and EW.

What the Hell? Even I think thats Crap. (#_!)

What the Hell? Even I think thats Crap. (#_!)

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