Drawn

hoorah !

well i love jamie hewit as much as the next guy for sure. anybody who loves the animated versions of his characters may be framiliar with the name robert valley. he was mentioned on this site a few weeks back and he animated many of the great bits in the videos for feel good inc, jump the gut, and the one with that absolutely charming little dance by the girl character – thats all rob.

weve set up a blog for him – you guys have heard of blogs, right ? anyway, its barebones now but bookmark it – lots of great rob stuff to come.

http://www.robertvalley.blogspot.com

again, congradulations to jamie and his whimsical, anarchistic, plain old KNOCKOUT designs that inspire us all.

dany

hoorah !

well i love jamie hewit as much as the next guy for sure. anybody who loves the animated versions of his characters may be framiliar with the name robert valley. he was mentioned on this site a few weeks back and he animated many of the great bits in the videos for feel good inc, jump the gut, and the one with that absolutely charming little dance by the girl character – thats all rob.

weve set up a blog for him – you guys have heard of blogs, right ? anyway, its barebones now but bookmark it – lots of great rob stuff to come.

http://www.robertvalley.blogspot.com

again, congradulations to jamie and his whimsical, anarchistic, plain old KNOCKOUT designs that inspire us all.

dany

I don’t know who else was nominated, but I’d say dude was the right choice for sure. I love his work.

I don’t know who else was nominated, but I’d say dude was the right choice for sure. I love his work.

He gives the perfect example of animated images. Absolutely marvellous work. He simple deserves the best. Congrats Jamie.

He gives the perfect example of animated images. Absolutely marvellous work. He simple deserves the best. Congrats Jamie.

I love the work of Jamie Hewlett (always have, ever since reading “Hewligan’s Haircut” in 2000AD as a wee boy), and his work really does take animation and comic art into new, popular areas. So good on ‘im.

From what I’ve seen on the above blog, however, Robert Valley doesn’t deserve to be held up alongside Hewlett, let alone given any praise whatsoever.

His work is messy, soulless, and desperately strives, though continually fails, to be cool. Worst of all though, the guy’s a f***ing misogynistic, lunk-headed asshole, if his work is anything to go by. If anyone can tell me the value of a comic strip that persistently shows women as nothing but tits and ass, or as a bunch of holes to be filled, then I’d be happy to hear it.

Don’t inflate the guy’s massive ego, or tiny dick, by visiting his site.

I love the work of Jamie Hewlett (always have, ever since reading “Hewligan’s Haircut” in 2000AD as a wee boy), and his work really does take animation and comic art into new, popular areas. So good on ‘im.

From what I’ve seen on the above blog, however, Robert Valley doesn’t deserve to be held up alongside Hewlett, let alone given any praise whatsoever.

His work is messy, soulless, and desperately strives, though continually fails, to be cool. Worst of all though, the guy’s a f***ing misogynistic, lunk-headed asshole, if his work is anything to go by. If anyone can tell me the value of a comic strip that persistently shows women as nothing but tits and ass, or as a bunch of holes to be filled, then I’d be happy to hear it.

Don’t inflate the guy’s massive ego, or tiny dick, by visiting his site.

maybe i jumped too quickly, but i mention rob with jamie because rob did great stuff with jamies character designs. if you like the gorillaz videos, you like robs animation. its that simple.

he animated many of the great bits in the videos for feel good inc, jump the gut, and the one with that absolutely charming little dance by the girl character – thats all rob.

also theres a lot of humor in his comics. its not a one sided – look at all the girls i can be with in comic form – view. he portays himself getting roughed up a lot. there is no t and a in the surfing strip for example, some neat looks at foreign travel in some coming up … im not saying hes equal to jamie hewlett but rob has proved he knows how to treat jamies designs with respect and charm.

dany

maybe i jumped too quickly, but i mention rob with jamie because rob did great stuff with jamies character designs. if you like the gorillaz videos, you like robs animation. its that simple.

he animated many of the great bits in the videos for feel good inc, jump the gut, and the one with that absolutely charming little dance by the girl character – thats all rob.

also theres a lot of humor in his comics. its not a one sided – look at all the girls i can be with in comic form – view. he portays himself getting roughed up a lot. there is no t and a in the surfing strip for example, some neat looks at foreign travel in some coming up … im not saying hes equal to jamie hewlett but rob has proved he knows how to treat jamies designs with respect and charm.

dany

Jamie Hewlett is great and defiantly deserves the award. I am going down next week and I’m looking forward to it. I am also a big fan of the guardian design as well and I thought that might have won but I was wrong.

Jamie Hewlett is great and defiantly deserves the award. I am going down next week and I’m looking forward to it. I am also a big fan of the guardian design as well and I thought that might have won but I was wrong.

it would be nice if anyone who goes down there maybe takes some pictures or something and posts them online, as many of us will not be able to go al the way to the u.k.

it would be nice if anyone who goes down there maybe takes some pictures or something and posts them online, as many of us will not be able to go al the way to the u.k.

I may have been somewhat harsh on Rob Valley’s work, but I really don’t see any excuse for, or merit in, drawing reams of work portraying women as nothing but walking talking wank fantasies.

Comic artists need to pull their heads out of their pants and grow up. Just because the guy draws the occasional strip about surfing, doesn’t excuse him. He’s still a sexist moron.

And the way he constantly (apparently) shows men in his work, as fighters, musclebound monsters, or drooling like lobotomy patients over a flash of female flesh.

Comics and cartoons, especially like Jamie Hewlett’s,

I may have been somewhat harsh on Rob Valley’s work, but I really don’t see any excuse for, or merit in, drawing reams of work portraying women as nothing but walking talking wank fantasies.

Comic artists need to pull their heads out of their pants and grow up. Just because the guy draws the occasional strip about surfing, doesn’t excuse him. He’s still a sexist moron.

And the way he constantly (apparently) shows men in his work, as fighters, musclebound monsters, or drooling like lobotomy patients over a flash of female flesh.

Comics and cartoons, especially like Jamie Hewlett’s,

I may have been somewhat harsh on Rob Valley’s work, but I really don’t see any excuse for, or merit in, drawing reams of work portraying women as nothing but walking talking wank fantasies.

Comic artists need to pull their heads out of their pants and grow up. Just because the guy draws the occasional strip about surfing, doesn’t excuse him. He’s still a sexist moron.

And the way he constantly (apparently) shows men in his work, as fighters, musclebound monsters, or drooling like lobotomy patients over a flash of female flesh.

Comics and cartoons, especially like Jamie Hewlett’s, can do so much more than this. I’m not against musclebound maniacs and curvaceous warrior babes in comics, but there’s got to be a POINT, beyond an adolescent T&A fantasy.

I may have been somewhat harsh on Rob Valley’s work, but I really don’t see any excuse for, or merit in, drawing reams of work portraying women as nothing but walking talking wank fantasies.

Comic artists need to pull their heads out of their pants and grow up. Just because the guy draws the occasional strip about surfing, doesn’t excuse him. He’s still a sexist moron.

And the way he constantly (apparently) shows men in his work, as fighters, musclebound monsters, or drooling like lobotomy patients over a flash of female flesh.

Comics and cartoons, especially like Jamie Hewlett’s, can do so much more than this. I’m not against musclebound maniacs and curvaceous warrior babes in comics, but there’s got to be a POINT, beyond an adolescent T&A fantasy.

yeah you were harsh. and dimwitted.

theres way more to robs art than what you saw with your narrowminded view. the muscle men you speak of ? theres ONE. and its a PARODY of the old joe atlas ad.

there are no naked forms in the dj images or teh surfing ones or many of hte travelogue pages well post next week. simply put, you are out of line.

his drawings are top notch – hes been featured here before – and his filmmaking sets the bar for p.o.v. experiences.

and coming here to talk about another guys dick size ? whats wrong with you?

dany

yeah you were harsh. and dimwitted.

theres way more to robs art than what you saw with your narrowminded view. the muscle men you speak of ? theres ONE. and its a PARODY of the old joe atlas ad.

there are no naked forms in the dj images or teh surfing ones or many of hte travelogue pages well post next week. simply put, you are out of line.

his drawings are top notch – hes been featured here before – and his filmmaking sets the bar for p.o.v. experiences.

and coming here to talk about another guys dick size ? whats wrong with you?

dany

I second that request for pictures. Could someone please take a bunch of nice pics and post them somewhere? Maybe Drawn! would be kind enough then to give us all a heads-up and direct us to them?

Please? Jamie’s a great designer and cartoonist, and it would be a real treat.

I second that request for pictures. Could someone please take a bunch of nice pics and post them somewhere? Maybe Drawn! would be kind enough then to give us all a heads-up and direct us to them?

Please? Jamie’s a great designer and cartoonist, and it would be a real treat.

Congrats to Jamie certainly. Love the work.
And if people could for one second forget Robert Valley’s personal work,
be easy and applaud Robert Valley’s contribution to The Gorillaz.

Have you seen the “Feel Good Inc” Storyboards and what happened to them after Robert Valley touched them?

Nuff said.

Congrats to Jamie certainly. Love the work.
And if people could for one second forget Robert Valley’s personal work,
be easy and applaud Robert Valley’s contribution to The Gorillaz.

Have you seen the “Feel Good Inc” Storyboards and what happened to them after Robert Valley touched them?

Nuff said.

The folks at Gorillaz_news posted these photos from the exhibit a little while ago: http://gorillaz-news.livejournal.com/131676.html Enjoy!

The folks at Gorillaz_news posted these photos from the exhibit a little while ago: http://gorillaz-news.livejournal.com/131676.html Enjoy!

I went to the design museum a couple of months back to see the show, and was completely blown away by the pencil drawings. The precison and quality of line, and the awesome characterization. I didn’t have a camera with me, and have been cursing myself that I didn’t leave with a permanent record of what I saw. Thankfully the excellent photographs on the link above give a fantastic and thorough account of the work on display. Thanks teriyakibroth!

The Gorillaz pencil drawings look like they were drawn with technical drawing pencils, maybe of various diameters. I draw with the old fashioned sort, but am hankering to give some technical drawing pencils a go.

Does anyone know the sort of pencils Jamie Hewlett uses? Is there a range of techincal drawing pencils cartoonists swear by? What’s the general consenus?

Any info greatly appreciated,

Jonesey

I went to the design museum a couple of months back to see the show, and was completely blown away by the pencil drawings. The precison and quality of line, and the awesome characterization. I didn’t have a camera with me, and have been cursing myself that I didn’t leave with a permanent record of what I saw. Thankfully the excellent photographs on the link above give a fantastic and thorough account of the work on display. Thanks teriyakibroth!

The Gorillaz pencil drawings look like they were drawn with technical drawing pencils, maybe of various diameters. I draw with the old fashioned sort, but am hankering to give some technical drawing pencils a go.

Does anyone know the sort of pencils Jamie Hewlett uses? Is there a range of techincal drawing pencils cartoonists swear by? What’s the general consenus?

Any info greatly appreciated,

Jonesey

Could have guessed that this would come down to insults.

There was nothing dimwitted or out of line about my comments on Rob Valley’s work.

Yes, I’ve only seen a small amount of his work on your blog, but I think it’s interesting that a significant proportion of the work posted on the blog and Flickr website focuses on objectifying women in a really sleazy, demeaning way, without any underlying message that might justify such a depiction.

You raise the fact that there’s no nudity in the surfing and fighting strips, but so what? I think it’s interesting that there’s no nudity in the strips that have no women in them – why is that do you think? And why is it that any of the strips that do show women show them as scantily clad, sexually available (or provocative), voiceless objects, and nothing else?

Admittedly, if he played a key role in animating the Gorillaz videos, then he’s got talent. I personally don’t like what I’ve seen of his comic drawing style – I don’t think it’s particularly amazing, striking, or clever, and I think the content is just plain dull.

Just to point out, I never said his work was full of muscle-bound morons. I can disregard the absurdly muscley guy as a parody of the old Atlas ads, but that doesn’t take away the fact that men are generally otherwise shown in the work you’ve posted as fighting or f***ing. Nice image of men he has then, too.

At the end of the day, you chose which of his work to post on your blog, which says more about your attitudes than it does about his. Maybe the vast majority of his work is filled with well-rounded, realistic, sympathetic female characters. That wouldn’t make his sexist strips less offensive, it would just make them more baffling.

Could have guessed that this would come down to insults.

There was nothing dimwitted or out of line about my comments on Rob Valley’s work.

Yes, I’ve only seen a small amount of his work on your blog, but I think it’s interesting that a significant proportion of the work posted on the blog and Flickr website focuses on objectifying women in a really sleazy, demeaning way, without any underlying message that might justify such a depiction.

You raise the fact that there’s no nudity in the surfing and fighting strips, but so what? I think it’s interesting that there’s no nudity in the strips that have no women in them – why is that do you think? And why is it that any of the strips that do show women show them as scantily clad, sexually available (or provocative), voiceless objects, and nothing else?

Admittedly, if he played a key role in animating the Gorillaz videos, then he’s got talent. I personally don’t like what I’ve seen of his comic drawing style – I don’t think it’s particularly amazing, striking, or clever, and I think the content is just plain dull.

Just to point out, I never said his work was full of muscle-bound morons. I can disregard the absurdly muscley guy as a parody of the old Atlas ads, but that doesn’t take away the fact that men are generally otherwise shown in the work you’ve posted as fighting or f***ing. Nice image of men he has then, too.

At the end of the day, you chose which of his work to post on your blog, which says more about your attitudes than it does about his. Maybe the vast majority of his work is filled with well-rounded, realistic, sympathetic female characters. That wouldn’t make his sexist strips less offensive, it would just make them more baffling.

….huh. How come nobody mentions how ace Tank Girl was? My first love. First movie I ever purchased, too.

….huh. How come nobody mentions how ace Tank Girl was? My first love. First movie I ever purchased, too.

I’ve been there yesterday. I’ve made a Flickr Set with all the pictures of the exhibition. Feel free to visit it :)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/eunice_szpillman/sets/72157594147033791/

I’ve been there yesterday. I’ve made a Flickr Set with all the pictures of the exhibition. Feel free to visit it :)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/eunice_szpillman/sets/72157594147033791/

Got to agree that Rob Valley does not deserve to be up there with Jamie Hewlett, for artistic and for moral reasons. Of course there’ll be a lot of work he’s done that we haven’t seen, but we can only judge by what we’ve seen. So on Danny’s blog so far we have six depictions of women by Rob Valley:

1) Slim, pretty woman rides on the back of a motorbike (driven by a bloke); she wears a swimsuit.

2) Thin pretty woman cavorts in a bikini in a private lapdance for a bloke (himself wearing jeans, not Speedos). She touches his groin and places her knee on his thigh. All this drawn, by the way, as if seen through the man’s eye.

3) Same woman continues her lapdance, this time rubbing her be-thonged and tattooed rear end against our hero’s crotch, and allowing him to grope her buttocks, before she thrusts her fingers inside her thong, giving our hero ample view of her genitals. Nice. For him. Did I mention that she’s teetering around on stilettos during all this?

4) Slim, pretty babe with bare back, bikini top, come-hither eyes and hotpants uses her shelf-like rump to distract a bloke while he sets up a pool shot. I don’t think I’m unduly reading between the lines by pointing out that the pool cue appears aimed directly at the woman’s arse.

5) Woman pulls down jeans to reveal thong and peachy behind; in another panel the pool game distraction masterpiece is reprised.

6) Some goateed bloke exclaims “Aw fer Chrissakes!” as a thin woman shoves her pert and naked buttocks into his face. The things men have to put up with! Sheesh.

Danny, you call Grim dimwitted and narrow-minded? There’s no need for that, he’s making a serious point. And if we’re going to use these words, what could be more dimwitted and narrow-minded than the cartoons you’ve featured on your blog? There’s an awful lot of aggression towards women in those cartoons; I can only recommend that Rob gets out and meets some real women instead of spending so much time with Lara Croft.

Got to agree that Rob Valley does not deserve to be up there with Jamie Hewlett, for artistic and for moral reasons. Of course there’ll be a lot of work he’s done that we haven’t seen, but we can only judge by what we’ve seen. So on Danny’s blog so far we have six depictions of women by Rob Valley:

1) Slim, pretty woman rides on the back of a motorbike (driven by a bloke); she wears a swimsuit.

2) Thin pretty woman cavorts in a bikini in a private lapdance for a bloke (himself wearing jeans, not Speedos). She touches his groin and places her knee on his thigh. All this drawn, by the way, as if seen through the man’s eye.

3) Same woman continues her lapdance, this time rubbing her be-thonged and tattooed rear end against our hero’s crotch, and allowing him to grope her buttocks, before she thrusts her fingers inside her thong, giving our hero ample view of her genitals. Nice. For him. Did I mention that she’s teetering around on stilettos during all this?

4) Slim, pretty babe with bare back, bikini top, come-hither eyes and hotpants uses her shelf-like rump to distract a bloke while he sets up a pool shot. I don’t think I’m unduly reading between the lines by pointing out that the pool cue appears aimed directly at the woman’s arse.

5) Woman pulls down jeans to reveal thong and peachy behind; in another panel the pool game distraction masterpiece is reprised.

6) Some goateed bloke exclaims “Aw fer Chrissakes!” as a thin woman shoves her pert and naked buttocks into his face. The things men have to put up with! Sheesh.

Danny, you call Grim dimwitted and narrow-minded? There’s no need for that, he’s making a serious point. And if we’re going to use these words, what could be more dimwitted and narrow-minded than the cartoons you’ve featured on your blog? There’s an awful lot of aggression towards women in those cartoons; I can only recommend that Rob gets out and meets some real women instead of spending so much time with Lara Croft.

What am I saying? At least Lara Croft was allowed to wear more than a bikini.

What am I saying? At least Lara Croft was allowed to wear more than a bikini.

Grim Says:

Could have guessed that this would come down to insults.

after writing

His work is messy, soulless, and desperately strives, though continually fails, to be cool. Worst of all though, the guy’s a f*ing misogynistic, lunk-headed asshole.

grim, you started with the insults.

look guys, im not saying robert is a designer on par with jamie hewlett. but considering how good the gorillaz videos are, it seemed fair to me to point out robs talent. like watching dumbo and giving props to bill tytla or freddy moore.

now, i know rob, and hes no mysogynist lunkhead. please, lets give him licence to draw what hed like, okay ? just because he draws a guy getting a lapdance does not make him hate women. and g2- the pool hall pictures – c’mon. pointing the pool cue at her behind ? she was trying to mess up his shot! its a real experience ( he missed the shot, by the way ) and its part of a series of pages about his trip to thailand.

im not filtering robs stuff nor am i posting only what i like. we maxed out his flickr set quota already and wont post new things till thurs. i know theres six depictions of women but, like i pointed out before – theres other stuff there and more to come.

please guys, go look at robertvalley.com and see more of his stuff, okay ? rob was mentioned here on drawn before – so was i, you can search – and he got heaps of praise before you guys came along and moaned about his depictions of women. this is an ART FORUM, for crying out loud. i wouldnt be involed with rob if his drawings werent so damn good.

and theres plenty of other things to complain about in the world besides theres too many skinny women in robs pictures.

if either of you two guys can draw or animate like rob – massive swerve is a masterwork – id be happy to got to your sites and sing your praises. but really – stop with the hating and see the forest for the ( skinny ) trees.

dany

Grim Says:

Could have guessed that this would come down to insults.

after writing

His work is messy, soulless, and desperately strives, though continually fails, to be cool. Worst of all though, the guy’s a f*ing misogynistic, lunk-headed asshole.

grim, you started with the insults.

look guys, im not saying robert is a designer on par with jamie hewlett. but considering how good the gorillaz videos are, it seemed fair to me to point out robs talent. like watching dumbo and giving props to bill tytla or freddy moore.

now, i know rob, and hes no mysogynist lunkhead. please, lets give him licence to draw what hed like, okay ? just because he draws a guy getting a lapdance does not make him hate women. and g2- the pool hall pictures – c’mon. pointing the pool cue at her behind ? she was trying to mess up his shot! its a real experience ( he missed the shot, by the way ) and its part of a series of pages about his trip to thailand.

im not filtering robs stuff nor am i posting only what i like. we maxed out his flickr set quota already and wont post new things till thurs. i know theres six depictions of women but, like i pointed out before – theres other stuff there and more to come.

please guys, go look at robertvalley.com and see more of his stuff, okay ? rob was mentioned here on drawn before – so was i, you can search – and he got heaps of praise before you guys came along and moaned about his depictions of women. this is an ART FORUM, for crying out loud. i wouldnt be involed with rob if his drawings werent so damn good.

and theres plenty of other things to complain about in the world besides theres too many skinny women in robs pictures.

if either of you two guys can draw or animate like rob – massive swerve is a masterwork – id be happy to got to your sites and sing your praises. but really – stop with the hating and see the forest for the ( skinny ) trees.

dany

eunice szpillman

thank you man !

from DRAWN !

Massive Swerve
Tuesday, February 21st, 2006

Massive Swerve is the name of Robert Valley’s website. His work boasts a great angular style. His comics and drawings have a great loose quality to them… I’d love to see more.

http://pascalblais.com

to see robert valleys reel

please be fair and go have a look. and be sure to visit robertvalley.blogspot.com for more great art later this week.

dany

eunice szpillman

thank you man !

from DRAWN !

Massive Swerve
Tuesday, February 21st, 2006

Massive Swerve is the name of Robert Valley’s website. His work boasts a great angular style. His comics and drawings have a great loose quality to them… I’d love to see more.

http://pascalblais.com

to see robert valleys reel

please be fair and go have a look. and be sure to visit robertvalley.blogspot.com for more great art later this week.

dany

Dany, you don’t seem to get it. Being talented at drawing (let’s, for the sake of argument, accept for a moment that Rob Valley draws well), doesn’t give him moral carte blanche to “draw what he’d like”. You can’t escape the fact that, on the evidence so far, what Rob V likes when he draws is to depict women purely as sexual objects and nothing more.

Should he have a responsibility not to objectify women? Hell yes, he’s putting his art out there in public, making it part of the great public discourse – it’s a form of communication. And what he’s communicating is plain ugly.

Dany, you say it’s an ART FORUM and that Rob’s drawings are justified by the fact that they’re “damn good”, as if using artistic materials absolves someone of all obligations to act with decency and respect. That’s a strange view of what art is. I thought art was the most profound way we communicated with and interpreted the world… If Rob V’s work exists in a vaccuum and is purely about his technical ability, and if it contains no message beyond the jizzmag images we’ve seen so far, then Rob V’s work ain’t art at all and doensn’t belong on an art forum.

Dany, you don’t seem to get it. Being talented at drawing (let’s, for the sake of argument, accept for a moment that Rob Valley draws well), doesn’t give him moral carte blanche to “draw what he’d like”. You can’t escape the fact that, on the evidence so far, what Rob V likes when he draws is to depict women purely as sexual objects and nothing more.

Should he have a responsibility not to objectify women? Hell yes, he’s putting his art out there in public, making it part of the great public discourse – it’s a form of communication. And what he’s communicating is plain ugly.

Dany, you say it’s an ART FORUM and that Rob’s drawings are justified by the fact that they’re “damn good”, as if using artistic materials absolves someone of all obligations to act with decency and respect. That’s a strange view of what art is. I thought art was the most profound way we communicated with and interpreted the world… If Rob V’s work exists in a vaccuum and is purely about his technical ability, and if it contains no message beyond the jizzmag images we’ve seen so far, then Rob V’s work ain’t art at all and doensn’t belong on an art forum.

Incidentally, I just took a look at robertvalley.com… I’d assumed that all the interesting stuff you’d heralded would at least be on his own site. Nope. More of the same, and worse. “Sex Police” features a scantily clad woman police officer in crop top and hipster jeans with her arse crack on display. There’s a strip called “Bitchslap” – nice. The one woman character on the site who’s allowed to wear clothes that cover more than 20% of her flesh is depicted plunging through the air so that her dress rides up and we get a view of her stockings and suspenders.

Shouldn’t Rob have worked through all these issues in private during puberty, like other people?

I’m looking forward to the ‘travelogues’ from Thailand, no doubt a potted tour of Bangkok’s lapdancing clubs and brothels.

Not exactly Joe Sacco, is it?

Incidentally, I just took a look at robertvalley.com… I’d assumed that all the interesting stuff you’d heralded would at least be on his own site. Nope. More of the same, and worse. “Sex Police” features a scantily clad woman police officer in crop top and hipster jeans with her arse crack on display. There’s a strip called “Bitchslap” – nice. The one woman character on the site who’s allowed to wear clothes that cover more than 20% of her flesh is depicted plunging through the air so that her dress rides up and we get a view of her stockings and suspenders.

Shouldn’t Rob have worked through all these issues in private during puberty, like other people?

I’m looking forward to the ‘travelogues’ from Thailand, no doubt a potted tour of Bangkok’s lapdancing clubs and brothels.

Not exactly Joe Sacco, is it?

Spain. 1792. The high council of the Catholic Church is looking over etchings that depict prostitution, child sexual abuse, witchcraft, and satiric critiques of the clergy. It’s suggested that the artist be brought up on charges and arrested. However, Brother Lorenzo (Javier Bardem) defends the artist by saying that he is merely drawing what is happening around him and that he cannot be held accountable. He suggests that Spain is out of control.

summary of the new film from milos foreman ( amadaeus, the people vs larry flint ) about the life of goya.

rob wrestles with his subject matter, thinking maybe it is too much of the same. i tell him – because i had to deal with the same issues in my own comics – that if it happened to him, and its real, then its only fair and right he can draw it.

the lapdance story ends with him not having enough money to continue. i think thats something many of us can relate to – the constant tease and allure of the unattainable. is the girl a victim ? im not too sure about that. should he draw her plumper so dudes like you dont get worked up about unrealistic depictions of women ? he drew what he saw.

id like to drop all this because it getting pretty far from hewlett – my fault about that, and im sorry – but something about your condescending, jealous tone is rubbing me the wrong way. g2 you still havent seen roberts animation reel, i can tell, or massive swerve. i dont think every individual artist bears the weight of creating perfectly balanced depictions of women and socially responsible subject matter. you are a filter, look at what you like – i suggest you and grim might have fun watching oprah shows – and avoid what you dont, but please, you two are coming off as preachy.

dany

Spain. 1792. The high council of the Catholic Church is looking over etchings that depict prostitution, child sexual abuse, witchcraft, and satiric critiques of the clergy. It’s suggested that the artist be brought up on charges and arrested. However, Brother Lorenzo (Javier Bardem) defends the artist by saying that he is merely drawing what is happening around him and that he cannot be held accountable. He suggests that Spain is out of control.

summary of the new film from milos foreman ( amadaeus, the people vs larry flint ) about the life of goya.

rob wrestles with his subject matter, thinking maybe it is too much of the same. i tell him – because i had to deal with the same issues in my own comics – that if it happened to him, and its real, then its only fair and right he can draw it.

the lapdance story ends with him not having enough money to continue. i think thats something many of us can relate to – the constant tease and allure of the unattainable. is the girl a victim ? im not too sure about that. should he draw her plumper so dudes like you dont get worked up about unrealistic depictions of women ? he drew what he saw.

id like to drop all this because it getting pretty far from hewlett – my fault about that, and im sorry – but something about your condescending, jealous tone is rubbing me the wrong way. g2 you still havent seen roberts animation reel, i can tell, or massive swerve. i dont think every individual artist bears the weight of creating perfectly balanced depictions of women and socially responsible subject matter. you are a filter, look at what you like – i suggest you and grim might have fun watching oprah shows – and avoid what you dont, but please, you two are coming off as preachy.

dany

I have seen the Massive Swerve animation, Dany (including the unlovely split second of on-dancefloor fellatio). It was boring. Yeah, it depicted a hedonistic night out on recreational drugs that a lot of us have had. Did it say anything about the experience? Not that I could tell. What was the point? It was empty of any meaning. No characters were fleshed out, there was no substance. So he was depicting what really goes on as, what, as a commentary on society, as your 18th century Spaniard did? The problem is, what Rob has drawn looked awfully like a celebration of what was shown; if there was any critique or insightful interpretation there, I didn’t see it.

Body Mass Index: he draws skinny, nubile, scantily clad women because he “drew what he saw”. Really? The breasts and buttocks of all the women he has every met were uniformly pneumatic and gravity-defying? He’s never seen a normal-looking woman who doesn’t behave like a blow-up doll? Never? That’s really weird. Where does he live? What a gene pool! Come on, Dany, he chooses to draw the kind of women that titillate him. Cheerlead for him if you must but don’t kid yourself.

Of course not every artist has to depict a perfectly balanced view of women and of society – but every artist should take responsibility for what they put out there. No doubt Rob is an ambitious guy, he would like his work to circulate widely and contribute something to popular culture. Nothing wrong with that, pop culture is an exhilarating global conversation that everyone can take part in, but if this degrading of women is what he wants to put out there, I reserve the right to argue against it. Call it preaching if you like (the only way someone wallowing in the mire has left to sound self-righteous).

But all this stuff about an artist’s responsibilities is a moot point in this case, really, because anyone who peddles the kind of soft porn that Rob Valley does is no artist anyway.

I have seen the Massive Swerve animation, Dany (including the unlovely split second of on-dancefloor fellatio). It was boring. Yeah, it depicted a hedonistic night out on recreational drugs that a lot of us have had. Did it say anything about the experience? Not that I could tell. What was the point? It was empty of any meaning. No characters were fleshed out, there was no substance. So he was depicting what really goes on as, what, as a commentary on society, as your 18th century Spaniard did? The problem is, what Rob has drawn looked awfully like a celebration of what was shown; if there was any critique or insightful interpretation there, I didn’t see it.

Body Mass Index: he draws skinny, nubile, scantily clad women because he “drew what he saw”. Really? The breasts and buttocks of all the women he has every met were uniformly pneumatic and gravity-defying? He’s never seen a normal-looking woman who doesn’t behave like a blow-up doll? Never? That’s really weird. Where does he live? What a gene pool! Come on, Dany, he chooses to draw the kind of women that titillate him. Cheerlead for him if you must but don’t kid yourself.

Of course not every artist has to depict a perfectly balanced view of women and of society – but every artist should take responsibility for what they put out there. No doubt Rob is an ambitious guy, he would like his work to circulate widely and contribute something to popular culture. Nothing wrong with that, pop culture is an exhilarating global conversation that everyone can take part in, but if this degrading of women is what he wants to put out there, I reserve the right to argue against it. Call it preaching if you like (the only way someone wallowing in the mire has left to sound self-righteous).

But all this stuff about an artist’s responsibilities is a moot point in this case, really, because anyone who peddles the kind of soft porn that Rob Valley does is no artist anyway.

Oh wait, Dany, I just saw your own website. I think you failed to declare an interest. It seems you’ve got the same compulsion as Rob V to publish your onanistic sketches online too.

I love your juxtaposition of fwuffy ickle animal drawings with a cartoon of a buxom naked lass poledancing in her tent while appreciative raccoons look on, dribbling and clearly about to beat their mammalian meat.

Oh wait, Dany, I just saw your own website. I think you failed to declare an interest. It seems you’ve got the same compulsion as Rob V to publish your onanistic sketches online too.

I love your juxtaposition of fwuffy ickle animal drawings with a cartoon of a buxom naked lass poledancing in her tent while appreciative raccoons look on, dribbling and clearly about to beat their mammalian meat.

g2

the image you are talking about is an actual portrait of an actual human being. yes she was a stripper – so what ?

the racoons are not realistic – nor are your expectations that all art has to be free of any un- politically correct representation of the human form.

like rob i draw other things besides nubile women but there seems to be only one thing on your mind. i hear oprah calling you …

if you can tear your eyes from the computer monitor.

dany

g2

the image you are talking about is an actual portrait of an actual human being. yes she was a stripper – so what ?

the racoons are not realistic – nor are your expectations that all art has to be free of any un- politically correct representation of the human form.

like rob i draw other things besides nubile women but there seems to be only one thing on your mind. i hear oprah calling you …

if you can tear your eyes from the computer monitor.

dany

( i had to look it up. someone was reading the dictionary whilst rob and meself were scribbling in the margins of our school textbooks. )

just kidding, g2. good on you for knowing big words.

onanism
noun
1. Sexual intercourse in which the penis is withdrawn from the vagina before ejaculation; coitus interruptus.
2. Masturbation.

Etymology: 18c: named after the Biblical character Onan, son of Judah, who practised coitus interruptus (Genesis 38.9).

( i had to look it up. someone was reading the dictionary whilst rob and meself were scribbling in the margins of our school textbooks. )

just kidding, g2. good on you for knowing big words.

onanism
noun
1. Sexual intercourse in which the penis is withdrawn from the vagina before ejaculation; coitus interruptus.
2. Masturbation.

Etymology: 18c: named after the Biblical character Onan, son of Judah, who practised coitus interruptus (Genesis 38.9).

First of all, G2 and I (and anyone else who has a problem with women being depicted in such a disturbingly objectified way), are hardly the Spanish Catholic council of the 18th century.

We’re not suggesting Rob be censored – we’re suggesting that his work is offensive and devoid of any valuable meaning or artistic merit. Furthermore, I don’t know about G2, but his work represents a trend of sexism in popular comics that I thought was on it’s way out.

If his work is art as you argue, these criticisms should all be part and parcel of putting it out for public consumption. So there’s no need to paint our objections as condescending or jealous (jealous? Of what?). They are justified criticisms of offensive, out-dated and vapid comic artwork.

Second, Robert Valley is no Goya. Goya’s work was art that expressed complex and honest views on the state of the society he lived in. He also expressed these in an innovative and engaging way.

There’s not much else to add to G2′s points. If you’re saying that Rob’s work accurately reflects his real-life experiences (what? Is he the rabbit?), then I’m calling you a liar. His depiction of the world is far from realistic, and it is his depictions of women that are the most detached from reality.

Although you seem to have missed the point on this, it’s not solely to do with the lack of variation in their body shape/clothing/tattoos/nudity/lack of personality, although that does become boring and absurd. It’s to do with the fact that they’re portrayed as being nothing but readily-available cum-receptacles, with no personality or role in the “storylines” other than to titillate the central character (and given Rob’s “point-of-view” style of drawing, the central character is usually also the reader).

Like most bigoted jokes/artwork/writing etc, at first it’s offensive, but at base it’s just juvenile, shallow, and very VERY boring. If Rob ever hopes to be on the same level as Jamie Hewlett (artistically or professionally) then he needs to learn to vary his subject matter, push it in new directions, and to appeal to a wider audience than adolescent boys (or adolescent boys in the bodies of grown men). Hewlett can be juvenile and shocking, but it’s done with good humour. Valley’s work is just pathetic.

Excuse me while I disregard your comment about Oprah.

First of all, G2 and I (and anyone else who has a problem with women being depicted in such a disturbingly objectified way), are hardly the Spanish Catholic council of the 18th century.

We’re not suggesting Rob be censored – we’re suggesting that his work is offensive and devoid of any valuable meaning or artistic merit. Furthermore, I don’t know about G2, but his work represents a trend of sexism in popular comics that I thought was on it’s way out.

If his work is art as you argue, these criticisms should all be part and parcel of putting it out for public consumption. So there’s no need to paint our objections as condescending or jealous (jealous? Of what?). They are justified criticisms of offensive, out-dated and vapid comic artwork.

Second, Robert Valley is no Goya. Goya’s work was art that expressed complex and honest views on the state of the society he lived in. He also expressed these in an innovative and engaging way.

There’s not much else to add to G2′s points. If you’re saying that Rob’s work accurately reflects his real-life experiences (what? Is he the rabbit?), then I’m calling you a liar. His depiction of the world is far from realistic, and it is his depictions of women that are the most detached from reality.

Although you seem to have missed the point on this, it’s not solely to do with the lack of variation in their body shape/clothing/tattoos/nudity/lack of personality, although that does become boring and absurd. It’s to do with the fact that they’re portrayed as being nothing but readily-available cum-receptacles, with no personality or role in the “storylines” other than to titillate the central character (and given Rob’s “point-of-view” style of drawing, the central character is usually also the reader).

Like most bigoted jokes/artwork/writing etc, at first it’s offensive, but at base it’s just juvenile, shallow, and very VERY boring. If Rob ever hopes to be on the same level as Jamie Hewlett (artistically or professionally) then he needs to learn to vary his subject matter, push it in new directions, and to appeal to a wider audience than adolescent boys (or adolescent boys in the bodies of grown men). Hewlett can be juvenile and shocking, but it’s done with good humour. Valley’s work is just pathetic.

Excuse me while I disregard your comment about Oprah.

Seriously, is this debate now reduced to giving someone abuse for using a word you don’t understand?

It says a lot about yours and Rob’s work that you need to resort to macho anti-intellectualism to justify your position.

Seriously, is this debate now reduced to giving someone abuse for using a word you don’t understand?

It says a lot about yours and Rob’s work that you need to resort to macho anti-intellectualism to justify your position.

im not sure rob even knows this conversation is going on – hes not resorting to macho anything. im not sure i am either, as i COMPLIMENTED g2 on his use of fancy words.

it just seems to me that you two guys are saying that the bodies of these women are unrealistic. well, i saw photos, and theyre anything but. the idea that you cant depict certain types of bodies goes against the fact that these bodies do exist.

he does put a spin on things and enhances forms in his own style but thats exactly what im complimenting him on. i know youre objecting to robs view as much as his technique. i know that its part of being an artist that people will throw these criticisms at you. grim, youre the one who first mentioned the size of robs dick. maybe you have fixations of your own ?

the fact is whatever you think about the subtext of his images – and id like to pont out AGAIN that you are fixating one one small aspect of his work – no need to go back and count boobs and buts, g2 – and that overall his animation, color skills, and draftmaship are top notch.

these are his works from his sketchbook on his blog. not an advertisment campaign that you could argue is there to make women feel badly about themselves. i put them out there because they are loose and lively and interesting and i stand by that claim.

dany

im not sure rob even knows this conversation is going on – hes not resorting to macho anything. im not sure i am either, as i COMPLIMENTED g2 on his use of fancy words.

it just seems to me that you two guys are saying that the bodies of these women are unrealistic. well, i saw photos, and theyre anything but. the idea that you cant depict certain types of bodies goes against the fact that these bodies do exist.

he does put a spin on things and enhances forms in his own style but thats exactly what im complimenting him on. i know youre objecting to robs view as much as his technique. i know that its part of being an artist that people will throw these criticisms at you. grim, youre the one who first mentioned the size of robs dick. maybe you have fixations of your own ?

the fact is whatever you think about the subtext of his images – and id like to pont out AGAIN that you are fixating one one small aspect of his work – no need to go back and count boobs and buts, g2 – and that overall his animation, color skills, and draftmaship are top notch.

these are his works from his sketchbook on his blog. not an advertisment campaign that you could argue is there to make women feel badly about themselves. i put them out there because they are loose and lively and interesting and i stand by that claim.

dany

Guys, guys, guys. I feel that the significance of Hewlett’s win is being rather sidetracked by this debate which seems to be veering dangerously close to becoming never-ending.

This post is, after all, about Jamie Hewlett winning an incredibly prestigous award that will raise the profile and value of cartoon art in the eyes of many important people. This surely benefits all of us illustrators and cartoonists, as it raises the value of the form we have chosen to commit to and create within.

Hewlett’s win is surely the equivilent of Chris Ware winning the 2001 Guardian first book award, or Art Spiegelman winning the Pulitzer.

Cartoons have always been seen as an inferior form within the design community. The Arts and Books section of the Daily Telegraph questioned Hewlett’s win when questioning the one of the judges:

“…….. giving such a prestigious design prize to an artist – and an artist whose work has been familiar for more than a decade (Tank Girl was turned into a $40 million Hollywood movie in 1995) – seems strange.

Not so, says Christopher Frayling, who chaired this year’s jury. “Graphics is always the poor relation of design,” he says. “When people mention design with a big ‘D’, they tend to think of lighting and furniture and occasionally architecture. But graphics is a hugely important part of the design culture, and we’re treating Jamie as a graphic designer who is taking things in new directions.

“The idea of a digitally created virtual band is so innovative, and Jamie is dealing with a space in design that’s only just beginning to open up. He’s definitely a man of the future.”

We should be celebrating Hewlett as a hero, just like Ware and Spiegelman. Slowly but surely cartooning is being dragged out of the ghetto it has been residing in for so long, and getting some much deserved praise and recognition. It’s being taken seriously at long last.

This post is not about the art of Robert Valley, but is about a truly great win for Jamie Hewlett and cartooning in general. He has surely benefited us all.

Hewlett has given us a good reason to stop whining, to roll up our sleeves, and to get drawing with added vigour and lead in our pencils.

And talking about pencils and leads – has anyone out there got any technical/mechanical drawing pencil advice for Jonesey? :)

Guys, guys, guys. I feel that the significance of Hewlett’s win is being rather sidetracked by this debate which seems to be veering dangerously close to becoming never-ending.

This post is, after all, about Jamie Hewlett winning an incredibly prestigous award that will raise the profile and value of cartoon art in the eyes of many important people. This surely benefits all of us illustrators and cartoonists, as it raises the value of the form we have chosen to commit to and create within.

Hewlett’s win is surely the equivilent of Chris Ware winning the 2001 Guardian first book award, or Art Spiegelman winning the Pulitzer.

Cartoons have always been seen as an inferior form within the design community. The Arts and Books section of the Daily Telegraph questioned Hewlett’s win when questioning the one of the judges:

“…….. giving such a prestigious design prize to an artist – and an artist whose work has been familiar for more than a decade (Tank Girl was turned into a $40 million Hollywood movie in 1995) – seems strange.

Not so, says Christopher Frayling, who chaired this year’s jury. “Graphics is always the poor relation of design,” he says. “When people mention design with a big ‘D’, they tend to think of lighting and furniture and occasionally architecture. But graphics is a hugely important part of the design culture, and we’re treating Jamie as a graphic designer who is taking things in new directions.

“The idea of a digitally created virtual band is so innovative, and Jamie is dealing with a space in design that’s only just beginning to open up. He’s definitely a man of the future.”

We should be celebrating Hewlett as a hero, just like Ware and Spiegelman. Slowly but surely cartooning is being dragged out of the ghetto it has been residing in for so long, and getting some much deserved praise and recognition. It’s being taken seriously at long last.

This post is not about the art of Robert Valley, but is about a truly great win for Jamie Hewlett and cartooning in general. He has surely benefited us all.

Hewlett has given us a good reason to stop whining, to roll up our sleeves, and to get drawing with added vigour and lead in our pencils.

And talking about pencils and leads – has anyone out there got any technical/mechanical drawing pencil advice for Jonesey? :)

Your inability to understand my (and G2′s) points about the inherent sexism and female objectification in Rob’s work is astounding. I am not objecting specifically to the fact that the women in his comics have perky tits, size 6 waists and their asses hanging out. These portrayal’s are still endemic in modern comics, and Rob Valley’s work could be seen in the context of this male-dominated, male-supported industry.

What we’re objecting to (pay attention now), is that women are repeatedly seen as nothing but sexual objects, to be stared at, drooled over, f*cked, and sucked off by. It’s offensive, and it’s made worse by the fact that there is no attempt at justification for these relentless portrayals. Your argument that these strips (no pun intended) reflect Rob’s life and experiences is clearly bullsh*t – real women are not what he (uniformly) portrays them to be. More likely is that Rob’s work reflects how he sees women, or how, based on some adolescent idea of women and sex, he would like women to be.

The fact that I think his work is dull, unskilled, pointless and ugly is just my aesthetic opinion. It may just be my opinion that he’s a sexist prick, but I haven’t seen any evidence to contradict it.

Your inability to understand my (and G2′s) points about the inherent sexism and female objectification in Rob’s work is astounding. I am not objecting specifically to the fact that the women in his comics have perky tits, size 6 waists and their asses hanging out. These portrayal’s are still endemic in modern comics, and Rob Valley’s work could be seen in the context of this male-dominated, male-supported industry.

What we’re objecting to (pay attention now), is that women are repeatedly seen as nothing but sexual objects, to be stared at, drooled over, f*cked, and sucked off by. It’s offensive, and it’s made worse by the fact that there is no attempt at justification for these relentless portrayals. Your argument that these strips (no pun intended) reflect Rob’s life and experiences is clearly bullsh*t – real women are not what he (uniformly) portrays them to be. More likely is that Rob’s work reflects how he sees women, or how, based on some adolescent idea of women and sex, he would like women to be.

The fact that I think his work is dull, unskilled, pointless and ugly is just my aesthetic opinion. It may just be my opinion that he’s a sexist prick, but I haven’t seen any evidence to contradict it.

Hey Jonesy,

Sorry to take the discussion away from Hewlett’s win, which as I’ve already said he deserves mountains of praise for, but the discussion started here, and developed here. People are welcome to discuss other things. I find the issues of sexism in comics fascinating, so I’ll keep discussing it, especially when I’m faced with someone with so little grasp of the concept of female objectification that he thinks we’re objecting to the female characters’ weight…

I think this discussion is relevant to the work of Hewlett over the past 20 years. Hewlett has always been a pioneer in portraying women as rounded, interesting, complex, not-solely-sexual characters. Whether it be Scarlett O’Gasmeter in Hewligan’s Haircut, Tank Girl (or Jet Girl or Sub Girl … ), or Noodles of the Gorillaz, his women are fleshed out and interesting in their own right.

Which is why it’s sad to see that, even though great comic artists and graphic designers like Hewlett are being recognised publicly for their contribution, some people would still prefer their comics to be adolescent, 2-dimensional (so to speak), pointlessly violent, pointlessly sexist, no-brainer jizz-mags.

Hey Jonesy,

Sorry to take the discussion away from Hewlett’s win, which as I’ve already said he deserves mountains of praise for, but the discussion started here, and developed here. People are welcome to discuss other things. I find the issues of sexism in comics fascinating, so I’ll keep discussing it, especially when I’m faced with someone with so little grasp of the concept of female objectification that he thinks we’re objecting to the female characters’ weight…

I think this discussion is relevant to the work of Hewlett over the past 20 years. Hewlett has always been a pioneer in portraying women as rounded, interesting, complex, not-solely-sexual characters. Whether it be Scarlett O’Gasmeter in Hewligan’s Haircut, Tank Girl (or Jet Girl or Sub Girl … ), or Noodles of the Gorillaz, his women are fleshed out and interesting in their own right.

Which is why it’s sad to see that, even though great comic artists and graphic designers like Hewlett are being recognised publicly for their contribution, some people would still prefer their comics to be adolescent, 2-dimensional (so to speak), pointlessly violent, pointlessly sexist, no-brainer jizz-mags.

Real women… http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1788761,00.html … they’re not hard to find, and they’re much more interesting.

Real women… http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1788761,00.html … they’re not hard to find, and they’re much more interesting.

so my replies got nuked! what’s up with that?
here is another

http://www.celiacalle.com/illos.html

http://katienice.homestead.com/Portfolio.html

female artists drawing sexy women

are these women mysoginist lunkheaded asshole pricks?

no stories to their images, just naked and looking sexy,cute, etc.

i’m happy to have better well rounded material. why don’t you critics create some and put it out there instead of complaining on the internet. put out some books based on those 100 women in your list and i’ll check it out.

robert valley’s material isn’t for everybody and if you don’t like it stop looking at it.

so my replies got nuked! what’s up with that?
here is another

http://www.celiacalle.com/illos.html

http://katienice.homestead.com/Portfolio.html

female artists drawing sexy women

are these women mysoginist lunkheaded asshole pricks?

no stories to their images, just naked and looking sexy,cute, etc.

i’m happy to have better well rounded material. why don’t you critics create some and put it out there instead of complaining on the internet. put out some books based on those 100 women in your list and i’ll check it out.

robert valley’s material isn’t for everybody and if you don’t like it stop looking at it.

Grim – you raise a good point…

I think there is becoming a shift towards portraying more “real” characters. We just need to keep speaking up and telling the world that this is what we want to see.

Grim – you raise a good point…

I think there is becoming a shift towards portraying more “real” characters. We just need to keep speaking up and telling the world that this is what we want to see.