Drawn

I really think Daryl at PDNPulse hit the nail on the head with this statement- “What’s really scary is that young, tech-savvy artists are being groomed to think they are contestants reaching for a prize, rather than creative professionals with valuable talents.”

Beta or no, at it’s heart, Pixish is circumnavigating tried and true (and mutually protective) processes of bringing together client and talent. Spec is spec, creating product for HOPE of selection is a profound disservice to all involved.

From Pixish, the example:
“Say you’re a magazine. You have a story that you need an illustration for. Your options are to find an artist for a custom job (time-consuming and expensive) or spend all day trolling microstock sites to find the perfect image (cheap, but just as time-consuming, and very frustrating). Pixish is a middle path.”

No. This month’s story about the crowd-scene-dog-show-bike-rally pays just as much as last month’s story about the lonely tree. Editorial illustrators are paid for usage, not the so called “custom job”. Any AD worth his or her salt would think of a better (less complicated) illustration solution before they went to the internet swap meet to wheel and deal.

Fighting in some xml gladiator arena with your fellow creative, all vying for a single prize- it’s horrible. It’s a ghetto, a slum. Your time is all you have, you can use it to grow and evolve, or you can roll the dice with your current ability trying to strike it rich with spec work.

If I’m reading it right, Pixish’s concept is this-
Clients to broke to go get pro talent meet talent too raw to make it in the professional arena.

From Pixish-
“There’s this thing called “spec work” where large companies take advantage of designers, getting work without paying.”
No, company size has nothing to do with it. Free work is free work is free work, and it’s just as wrong coming from your cousin’s pest control business as it is coming from Disney.
Also-
“But in Pixish, everything is in the hands of the artist. So if you think an assignment isn’t worth your time, don’t do it!”
That’s the thing, I’m not doing shit for spec, but 10 others will, and that devalues ALL of our work, weakens the ENTIRE industry. If you do a free sketch, then in the clients mind, forever, all sketches are free.
Finally-
“It’s our hope that Pixish becomes a true marketplace, where publishers who list assignments with too few rewards will have to raise their pay to what the community thinks is fair.”
That’s the thing, how does the community know what is fair? And how does something perceived to be fair make it so? The reality is that the majority of Pixish’s users will be novices, with no real concept of fair value usage. I concede we won’t see many $600 jobs bid on for $50, but we will see many $1500 jobs being bid on for $500.

But, like the man said, it’s in beta, and it could turn out good. Who knows? Let me close with this-

Anyone can get published. There is no secret, no alchemy. Buy a mailing list, send postcards. Fire off a few emails, maybe some cold calls. And then boom, you are published. That’s easy. The hard part is making a living getting published. If you are making a living getting published, you wouldn’t need Pixish. If you can only be published by winning prizes, you aren’t yet a professional, you are a prizewinner.

It’s not just drawing the damned picture. Illustration is relationships, negotiating, the push and pull of client/talent refining the concept. It’s filling out the invoice and doing your taxes properly. The reason I hate the very principle of Pixish is that it takes the teeth out of illustration, the hunting, the hustling. When the only jobs you’ve ever gotten have been through web 2.0 classified ads, how are you equipped to talk tough with an AD, to stand your ground, to hassle accounts payable to send the check already? How not to give up on your dreams when the client picked one of the other five guys doing the same spec work you were doing?

I really think Daryl at PDNPulse hit the nail on the head with this statement- “What’s really scary is that young, tech-savvy artists are being groomed to think they are contestants reaching for a prize, rather than creative professionals with valuable talents.”

Beta or no, at it’s heart, Pixish is circumnavigating tried and true (and mutually protective) processes of bringing together client and talent. Spec is spec, creating product for HOPE of selection is a profound disservice to all involved.

From Pixish, the example:
“Say you’re a magazine. You have a story that you need an illustration for. Your options are to find an artist for a custom job (time-consuming and expensive) or spend all day trolling microstock sites to find the perfect image (cheap, but just as time-consuming, and very frustrating). Pixish is a middle path.”

No. This month’s story about the crowd-scene-dog-show-bike-rally pays just as much as last month’s story about the lonely tree. Editorial illustrators are paid for usage, not the so called “custom job”. Any AD worth his or her salt would think of a better (less complicated) illustration solution before they went to the internet swap meet to wheel and deal.

Fighting in some xml gladiator arena with your fellow creative, all vying for a single prize- it’s horrible. It’s a ghetto, a slum. Your time is all you have, you can use it to grow and evolve, or you can roll the dice with your current ability trying to strike it rich with spec work.

If I’m reading it right, Pixish’s concept is this-
Clients to broke to go get pro talent meet talent too raw to make it in the professional arena.

From Pixish-
“There’s this thing called “spec work” where large companies take advantage of designers, getting work without paying.”
No, company size has nothing to do with it. Free work is free work is free work, and it’s just as wrong coming from your cousin’s pest control business as it is coming from Disney.
Also-
“But in Pixish, everything is in the hands of the artist. So if you think an assignment isn’t worth your time, don’t do it!”
That’s the thing, I’m not doing shit for spec, but 10 others will, and that devalues ALL of our work, weakens the ENTIRE industry. If you do a free sketch, then in the clients mind, forever, all sketches are free.
Finally-
“It’s our hope that Pixish becomes a true marketplace, where publishers who list assignments with too few rewards will have to raise their pay to what the community thinks is fair.”
That’s the thing, how does the community know what is fair? And how does something perceived to be fair make it so? The reality is that the majority of Pixish’s users will be novices, with no real concept of fair value usage. I concede we won’t see many $600 jobs bid on for $50, but we will see many $1500 jobs being bid on for $500.

But, like the man said, it’s in beta, and it could turn out good. Who knows? Let me close with this-

Anyone can get published. There is no secret, no alchemy. Buy a mailing list, send postcards. Fire off a few emails, maybe some cold calls. And then boom, you are published. That’s easy. The hard part is making a living getting published. If you are making a living getting published, you wouldn’t need Pixish. If you can only be published by winning prizes, you aren’t yet a professional, you are a prizewinner.

It’s not just drawing the damned picture. Illustration is relationships, negotiating, the push and pull of client/talent refining the concept. It’s filling out the invoice and doing your taxes properly. The reason I hate the very principle of Pixish is that it takes the teeth out of illustration, the hunting, the hustling. When the only jobs you’ve ever gotten have been through web 2.0 classified ads, how are you equipped to talk tough with an AD, to stand your ground, to hassle accounts payable to send the check already? How not to give up on your dreams when the client picked one of the other five guys doing the same spec work you were doing?

it seems like an igeneration version of “my friend’s mom needs someone to draw her cat for a birthday card.”

but i’m curious about it.

i don’t intend to participate but i did sign up just now to see what the fuss is about. if it’s good, i’ll definitely pass it along to my students and “i’m not a REAL artist” friends. with enough feedback in this beta stage, it could become a good place for amateurs and young artists to hone their skills and just have fun.

to those who worry that it will circumvent the business of illustration, i can understand that anxiety but i really don’t think pixish will do more damage than craigslist or elance… which is not much at all.

respectable art directors know the value of a commissioned illustrator and experienced illustrators will know better than to battle for low paying jobs.

the truth is that not EVERYONE can get published because not everyone is that good yet. pixish seems like just another place where cheap people can find those unseasoned artists while they are still just grateful to have a project on their drawing board.

when i was just getting started, i took dozens of crappy jobs (low pay, bad assignments, bad clients) before i realized that they weren’t worth my time. i could regret it but i don’t. i learned a lot through that process and i got better and more savvy with every project. i imagine that pixish will give a lot of young artists that same education. if it’s developed well, they could even get some money and joy out of it.

it seems like an igeneration version of “my friend’s mom needs someone to draw her cat for a birthday card.”

but i’m curious about it.

i don’t intend to participate but i did sign up just now to see what the fuss is about. if it’s good, i’ll definitely pass it along to my students and “i’m not a REAL artist” friends. with enough feedback in this beta stage, it could become a good place for amateurs and young artists to hone their skills and just have fun.

to those who worry that it will circumvent the business of illustration, i can understand that anxiety but i really don’t think pixish will do more damage than craigslist or elance… which is not much at all.

respectable art directors know the value of a commissioned illustrator and experienced illustrators will know better than to battle for low paying jobs.

the truth is that not EVERYONE can get published because not everyone is that good yet. pixish seems like just another place where cheap people can find those unseasoned artists while they are still just grateful to have a project on their drawing board.

when i was just getting started, i took dozens of crappy jobs (low pay, bad assignments, bad clients) before i realized that they weren’t worth my time. i could regret it but i don’t. i learned a lot through that process and i got better and more savvy with every project. i imagine that pixish will give a lot of young artists that same education. if it’s developed well, they could even get some money and joy out of it.

Time will tell.

Everybody has a choiche. You don’t HAVE to register and do assignments over at Pixish. I haven’t looked at the website but from what I understand they do not target at professional illustrators/designers etc. Remember that there is a huge market nowadays for amateur-designers.

Time will tell.

Everybody has a choiche. You don’t HAVE to register and do assignments over at Pixish. I haven’t looked at the website but from what I understand they do not target at professional illustrators/designers etc. Remember that there is a huge market nowadays for amateur-designers.

I’m not a fan. Fair enough if you are just starting out and do work for free to promote yourself or you draw as a hobby… but by participating in something that is comparable to a game potentially undermines your professionalism and could even devalue your work. It is much more likely to take advantage of young illustrators rather than give them any real experience. It is definitely a trap for students. The attitude young illustrator starting out should be content with working for free for ‘experience’ is greatly faulted.

I’m not a fan. Fair enough if you are just starting out and do work for free to promote yourself or you draw as a hobby… but by participating in something that is comparable to a game potentially undermines your professionalism and could even devalue your work. It is much more likely to take advantage of young illustrators rather than give them any real experience. It is definitely a trap for students. The attitude young illustrator starting out should be content with working for free for ‘experience’ is greatly faulted.

Yeah, not a fan. Contest, voting, prizes?

Yeah, not a fan. Contest, voting, prizes?

Pixish: CraigsList Art/Media/Design Two-Point-Oh.

Except with a slick design that might fool young talent into thinking this is how the industry works. This is frightening.

Pixish: CraigsList Art/Media/Design Two-Point-Oh.

Except with a slick design that might fool young talent into thinking this is how the industry works. This is frightening.

This is just like giving a monkey a gun.

If lots of amateur fishmen do fish in a lake, what’s left in that lake for those pro fishmen?

I don’t agree with those who legitimate this kind of ideas by telling us “that’s for amateurs”.

This is just like giving a monkey a gun.

If lots of amateur fishmen do fish in a lake, what’s left in that lake for those pro fishmen?

I don’t agree with those who legitimate this kind of ideas by telling us “that’s for amateurs”.

This seems like a mirror image of the “microstock” game. iStockphoto and others have photogs and artists load up their work hoping that someone will like it enough to pay … a dollar or two.

As an art director and illustrator, I work both sides of this – and when the clients know about these options, it’s REALLY hard to convince them that original art of any kind is worth the money. To be able to see the finished product before you agree to pay for it is a powerful thing.

This seems like a mirror image of the “microstock” game. iStockphoto and others have photogs and artists load up their work hoping that someone will like it enough to pay … a dollar or two.

As an art director and illustrator, I work both sides of this – and when the clients know about these options, it’s REALLY hard to convince them that original art of any kind is worth the money. To be able to see the finished product before you agree to pay for it is a powerful thing.

pixish is just a well-designed bulletin board. it’s not going to derail our industry or warp young minds. at best, it will become another place where inexperienced artists will test their chops until they are experienced enough to find better work elsewhere.

if anything, the struggle for crappy jobs weeds out would-be illustrators the same way that medical schools weed out would-be doctors. in the end, that means bigger jobs and better pay for experienced illustrators.

this is how it has always been.

before craigslist, before the INTERNET, there were actual cork bulletin boards at art schools, art stores, and art museums. industrious art students scrambled for those jobs! professional illustrators did not.

as scary as it might be to imagine a world where a single website could transform our entire industry, it’s not really going to happen.

pixish is just a well-designed bulletin board. it’s not going to derail our industry or warp young minds. at best, it will become another place where inexperienced artists will test their chops until they are experienced enough to find better work elsewhere.

if anything, the struggle for crappy jobs weeds out would-be illustrators the same way that medical schools weed out would-be doctors. in the end, that means bigger jobs and better pay for experienced illustrators.

this is how it has always been.

before craigslist, before the INTERNET, there were actual cork bulletin boards at art schools, art stores, and art museums. industrious art students scrambled for those jobs! professional illustrators did not.

as scary as it might be to imagine a world where a single website could transform our entire industry, it’s not really going to happen.

I’ve checked out some of the work being submitted to Pixish, and frankly, what I saw was total crap.

In light of this, I’m kind of leaning towards agreeing with Rama on this one, enough to not get outraged anyway.

While I question the prospects of a site that deals in crappy artwork for crappy clients, I also would like to say that I’ve collaborated with Derek on a previous project, and he really is a nice guy. This may have been a bit of a misfire but I’d hate to see him get innundated with flames.

I’ve checked out some of the work being submitted to Pixish, and frankly, what I saw was total crap.

In light of this, I’m kind of leaning towards agreeing with Rama on this one, enough to not get outraged anyway.

While I question the prospects of a site that deals in crappy artwork for crappy clients, I also would like to say that I’ve collaborated with Derek on a previous project, and he really is a nice guy. This may have been a bit of a misfire but I’d hate to see him get innundated with flames.

Yeah, I hope I didn’t come across as hateful or confrontational, his heart does indeed seem to be in the right place. I’m just against the spec in sheep’s clothing aspect of the site.
THIS ONE WEBSITE will not wreck the industry, but it’s another small wave that erodes our shores. We were paid better in the 80′s than we are now- book covers are paying less or the same as 90′s rates. The change is slow but it is real. The influx of thousands of internet artists accepting poor wages has driven down our bottom lines. I know we can’t help that, and competition is good- I just hope the trend of websites like this don’t price us out of existence.

Yeah, I hope I didn’t come across as hateful or confrontational, his heart does indeed seem to be in the right place. I’m just against the spec in sheep’s clothing aspect of the site.
THIS ONE WEBSITE will not wreck the industry, but it’s another small wave that erodes our shores. We were paid better in the 80′s than we are now- book covers are paying less or the same as 90′s rates. The change is slow but it is real. The influx of thousands of internet artists accepting poor wages has driven down our bottom lines. I know we can’t help that, and competition is good- I just hope the trend of websites like this don’t price us out of existence.

Here’s a choice quote from the MetaFilter comments:

“It baffles me that I can’t go to three restaurants, ask them all to make me dinner, then only pay for and eat the meal I like the look of.”

Here’s a choice quote from the MetaFilter comments:

“It baffles me that I can’t go to three restaurants, ask them all to make me dinner, then only pay for and eat the meal I like the look of.”

Johnny: Nail on the head.

I have zero time for ideas like this. If I want to do work for free, I’ll do my own projects, on my own time, FOR ME. It’s bad enough that sites like Threadless are now being scraped by designers for Urban Outfitters for “ideas” (ie: stealing.. don’t believe me? Check out the You Thought We Wouldn’t Notice blog that’s previously been posted here on Drawn), without making it THAT much easier for good work to be stolen.

Young illustrators:
Please don’t get sucked in by these things. You’ll regret it. We all have.

Johnny: Nail on the head.

I have zero time for ideas like this. If I want to do work for free, I’ll do my own projects, on my own time, FOR ME. It’s bad enough that sites like Threadless are now being scraped by designers for Urban Outfitters for “ideas” (ie: stealing.. don’t believe me? Check out the You Thought We Wouldn’t Notice blog that’s previously been posted here on Drawn), without making it THAT much easier for good work to be stolen.

Young illustrators:
Please don’t get sucked in by these things. You’ll regret it. We all have.

YEAH! And if you want to be published, but aren’t ready to take the world by storm, try getting cover work for your local weekly. The rates are reasonable ($250-$600), and it gives you lots of valuable experience and legitimate exposure. Weekly ADs face pressure to have something new and fun every week, so they love trying out new talent.

YEAH! And if you want to be published, but aren’t ready to take the world by storm, try getting cover work for your local weekly. The rates are reasonable ($250-$600), and it gives you lots of valuable experience and legitimate exposure. Weekly ADs face pressure to have something new and fun every week, so they love trying out new talent.

i like dave’s “another small wave that erodes our shores” analogy. that sounds about right to me.

i guess this site just doesn’t bother me because i get offers like this in my email all the time: no budget/no commitment/no time/no clue. pixish seems like a fine place to brush those offers off.

like luc, i don’t have the time* (or patience) for these offers. so, i just say no to them. if the project sounds interesting though, i don’t mind passing it along to a student or a talented friend BECAUSE…

unlike luc, i don’t regret the fact that i took jobs like this when i was just getting started. i jumped for joy the first time i got paid (a whole $60) for a drawing. and i learned a lot from that job and the $80 job and the $200 job that followed it.

in my opinion, the fact that “we all” have had experience with awful jobs and awful wages speaks to the fact that we all went through a similar rite of passage: new illustrators rarely have the chops to compete with seasoned ones.

as a slightly more seasoned illustrator, i don’t miss the crappy projects that i’m losing/giving to less experienced artists. (and i doubt that brad holland or chris ware miss the work that they’re losing to me.)

i also like what luc said about doing our own projects on our own time. the most exciting trend that i’ve seen in illustration these days is the fact that it is easier than ever to create and promote our own projects.

everything ~ books, prints, apparel, music, movies ~ is easier to produce thanks to the internet. so, while pixish erodes the shore of client-driven illustration, blurb and lulu and bepublished and gocco and cafepress and our own “desktop publishing” machines provide tools that we are already using to build an even better creator-driven industry.

*apparently, i do have time for this crazy internet discussion though :) thanks for the distraction, guys. i’m going back to my comic-in-progress.

i like dave’s “another small wave that erodes our shores” analogy. that sounds about right to me.

i guess this site just doesn’t bother me because i get offers like this in my email all the time: no budget/no commitment/no time/no clue. pixish seems like a fine place to brush those offers off.

like luc, i don’t have the time* (or patience) for these offers. so, i just say no to them. if the project sounds interesting though, i don’t mind passing it along to a student or a talented friend BECAUSE…

unlike luc, i don’t regret the fact that i took jobs like this when i was just getting started. i jumped for joy the first time i got paid (a whole $60) for a drawing. and i learned a lot from that job and the $80 job and the $200 job that followed it.

in my opinion, the fact that “we all” have had experience with awful jobs and awful wages speaks to the fact that we all went through a similar rite of passage: new illustrators rarely have the chops to compete with seasoned ones.

as a slightly more seasoned illustrator, i don’t miss the crappy projects that i’m losing/giving to less experienced artists. (and i doubt that brad holland or chris ware miss the work that they’re losing to me.)

i also like what luc said about doing our own projects on our own time. the most exciting trend that i’ve seen in illustration these days is the fact that it is easier than ever to create and promote our own projects.

everything ~ books, prints, apparel, music, movies ~ is easier to produce thanks to the internet. so, while pixish erodes the shore of client-driven illustration, blurb and lulu and bepublished and gocco and cafepress and our own “desktop publishing” machines provide tools that we are already using to build an even better creator-driven industry.

*apparently, i do have time for this crazy internet discussion though :) thanks for the distraction, guys. i’m going back to my comic-in-progress.

I’ve just set this really simple site up!

We Don’t Do Spec!

:) I feel better for doing something and not just reading all these comments.

I’ve just set this really simple site up!

We Don’t Do Spec!

:) I feel better for doing something and not just reading all these comments.

I’m frankly wondering why professionals are discussing it. It is obviously for amateurs, and that’s fine. If wannabe artists want to try to get their crap on a shirt, its fine. I don’t know any professionals who have time for such nonsense, especially professionals in a slow period (they all have a second job!)

You have to use your brain. There’s a huge spectrum of difference between “amateur contests”, “spec work”, “pro bono/charity work”, and “unpaid but highly self promotional work.” I’m not saying any of them are the best marketing strategy, but every artist has to make their own choices, and i’m not one to judge.

I’m frankly wondering why professionals are discussing it. It is obviously for amateurs, and that’s fine. If wannabe artists want to try to get their crap on a shirt, its fine. I don’t know any professionals who have time for such nonsense, especially professionals in a slow period (they all have a second job!)

You have to use your brain. There’s a huge spectrum of difference between “amateur contests”, “spec work”, “pro bono/charity work”, and “unpaid but highly self promotional work.” I’m not saying any of them are the best marketing strategy, but every artist has to make their own choices, and i’m not one to judge.

I find it particularly interesting that this has turned into such a HUGE thing in the blog sphere.

These types of sites are nothing new. They’ve been around for AGES.

The only thing notable about Pixish is that its founder is somewhat notable in web design circles.

If we’re going to rant about promoting spec work, fine, but let’s not pretend like Mr. Powazek is the first person to do so.

I find it particularly interesting that this has turned into such a HUGE thing in the blog sphere.

These types of sites are nothing new. They’ve been around for AGES.

The only thing notable about Pixish is that its founder is somewhat notable in web design circles.

If we’re going to rant about promoting spec work, fine, but let’s not pretend like Mr. Powazek is the first person to do so.