Drawn

His work and style is simply stunning. I want to see those things up close. Coming from the rural midwest (Ozark Mountains) I can relate.

On the other hand, with our lopsided politically correct world, these images trouble me. They seem derogatory. If Ryan Greis had done these cultural caricatures of a minority race, would he have such praise given to his work?

His work and style is simply stunning. I want to see those things up close. Coming from the rural midwest (Ozark Mountains) I can relate.

On the other hand, with our lopsided politically correct world, these images trouble me. They seem derogatory. If Ryan Greis had done these cultural caricatures of a minority race, would he have such praise given to his work?

To an extent, I see your point about seeming derogatory. But, I have to disagree. In today’s world, it seems the only person you CAN caricature safely is the middle class white male. Veering from it slightly is the lower class white male. Theirs is a culture (not a race) of people that enjoy living a simple life of drinking, fishing, having sex, etc. I don’t think he’s poking fun of homeless alcoholics with mental disabilities. I think he’s caricaturing the scrubby-faced man of backwoods country, who would rather live a life free from work and other hassles, opting to spend his days “vacationing” in the hills and hollers of his homeland.

As part of a “hillbilly’s” extreme lifestyle, other parts of their lifestyle are stereotypically taken for granted. Hygiene, marrying outside the family, etc. These things really do happen. I’m from Tennessee and know this to be true. He’s from Kentucky and a self-proclaimed hillbilly. And, what they say is true… if you can’t make fun of yourself, who CAN you make fun of?

He’s not placing all white people inside of this caricature. And again, he doesn’t seem to be talking about race; he’s painting about his personfinifaction of a culture. Just as some people paint about surf culture or some about hotrod culture, he paints about hillbilly culture.

I think his work is technically great and it, as a Southerner, speaks to me. I like your Devil’s Advocate take. But, I think that too many people get offended at too many things. Sometimes, you have to enjoy things for it’s own sake.

To an extent, I see your point about seeming derogatory. But, I have to disagree. In today’s world, it seems the only person you CAN caricature safely is the middle class white male. Veering from it slightly is the lower class white male. Theirs is a culture (not a race) of people that enjoy living a simple life of drinking, fishing, having sex, etc. I don’t think he’s poking fun of homeless alcoholics with mental disabilities. I think he’s caricaturing the scrubby-faced man of backwoods country, who would rather live a life free from work and other hassles, opting to spend his days “vacationing” in the hills and hollers of his homeland.

As part of a “hillbilly’s” extreme lifestyle, other parts of their lifestyle are stereotypically taken for granted. Hygiene, marrying outside the family, etc. These things really do happen. I’m from Tennessee and know this to be true. He’s from Kentucky and a self-proclaimed hillbilly. And, what they say is true… if you can’t make fun of yourself, who CAN you make fun of?

He’s not placing all white people inside of this caricature. And again, he doesn’t seem to be talking about race; he’s painting about his personfinifaction of a culture. Just as some people paint about surf culture or some about hotrod culture, he paints about hillbilly culture.

I think his work is technically great and it, as a Southerner, speaks to me. I like your Devil’s Advocate take. But, I think that too many people get offended at too many things. Sometimes, you have to enjoy things for it’s own sake.

Well, I guess it’s true…..
Art brings out all kinds of emotions. What I love about art? If I don’t like it, I don’t have to look at it. Quite frankly, I love this.

Well, I guess it’s true…..
Art brings out all kinds of emotions. What I love about art? If I don’t like it, I don’t have to look at it. Quite frankly, I love this.

hear hear tony h… if we’re not careful, we’re going to correct ourselves politically out of work and a sense of humour … and I don’t even think that SO many people do get offended by SO much stuff… I think there is a tiny group of people who get offended by everything and try to make every one else feel bad about it.

hear hear tony h… if we’re not careful, we’re going to correct ourselves politically out of work and a sense of humour … and I don’t even think that SO many people do get offended by SO much stuff… I think there is a tiny group of people who get offended by everything and try to make every one else feel bad about it.

Vit ‘n’ Madge:
Thanks for hearing me out. And you’re right about it not being a majority but a small group that gets offended. To always err on the side of caution is more comfortable but less rewarding.

Vit ‘n’ Madge:
Thanks for hearing me out. And you’re right about it not being a majority but a small group that gets offended. To always err on the side of caution is more comfortable but less rewarding.

“In today’s world, it seems the only person you CAN caricature safely is the middle class white male. Veering from it slightly is the lower class white male.”

That is exactly my point and that is what bothers me most of all. How can a white artist caricature non-white cultures and not get labeled a “racist?” How does South Park get away with it? I suppose Ryan Greis can do his stuff without too much grief because he is doing caricature of a particular culture rather than a particular race. I guess this would be fine unless you believe that all cultures are inherently equal. Then I could see someone having a problem with it.

There is no doubt to me that his work plays with stereotypes and puts down a culture. A culture that pretty much doesn’t know any better. That’s how they live and that is what they know. They don’t just “choose” the simple life. They are born into it. It’s the same as making fun of people with downs syndrome. I don’t buy his “self-proclaimed hillbilly” BS. It’s part of the joke. That is not the culture he embraces and he is not making fun of himself. Technically, his work is great. Conceptually, it’s about as deep as a puddle.

But still, I appreciate parody. I just want some depth with it. I want it to have a purpose other than to be mean.

“In today’s world, it seems the only person you CAN caricature safely is the middle class white male. Veering from it slightly is the lower class white male.”

That is exactly my point and that is what bothers me most of all. How can a white artist caricature non-white cultures and not get labeled a “racist?” How does South Park get away with it? I suppose Ryan Greis can do his stuff without too much grief because he is doing caricature of a particular culture rather than a particular race. I guess this would be fine unless you believe that all cultures are inherently equal. Then I could see someone having a problem with it.

There is no doubt to me that his work plays with stereotypes and puts down a culture. A culture that pretty much doesn’t know any better. That’s how they live and that is what they know. They don’t just “choose” the simple life. They are born into it. It’s the same as making fun of people with downs syndrome. I don’t buy his “self-proclaimed hillbilly” BS. It’s part of the joke. That is not the culture he embraces and he is not making fun of himself. Technically, his work is great. Conceptually, it’s about as deep as a puddle.

But still, I appreciate parody. I just want some depth with it. I want it to have a purpose other than to be mean.

All societies are equal, without doubt. But, I don’t think that he’s telling the audience that he thinks all Kentuckians or Appalachians are buck-toothed, inbred people. I think he’s playing more on everyone else’s stereotypes of Kentuckians/Appalachians. God knows, whenever I go on vacation to another state and I mention that I’m from Tennessee, inherently I get a knock about the fact that I shouldn’t be wearing shoes. It’s not that I think I should’nt be wearing shoes… it’s that everyone else plays Southerners like we shouldn’t be wearing shoes. Maybe he’s sick of being the joke and wants to get in on the joke for once. It’s like “you think Kentuckians shouldn’t wear shoes? I’ll give you an image of it to show you how stupid you are to perceive such a thing”. It’s a last laugh at the person who’s laughing at him.

To compare his paintings or ideology to someone who’d make fun of people with down syndrome is wrong.

Southerners are proud. I’m sure he doesn’t claim his Kentucky heritage only when it benefits him. I wouldn’t have received tons of disses over the years about my heritage if I hadn’t volunteered the info proudly. To be a self-proclaimed hillbilly is a great thing in my mind.

Tell me that, in the Ozarks, especially Table Rock Lake, you don’t find restaurant or shop signs playing on the hillbilly factor. I see that all over Tennessee. Go to Cracker Barrel and get some salt water taffy. On the box cover is images of hillbilly life.

Ryan Greis just takes his imagery a step further. He’s not simplifying his imagery in order to sell his work on a salt water taffy box.

All societies are equal, without doubt. But, I don’t think that he’s telling the audience that he thinks all Kentuckians or Appalachians are buck-toothed, inbred people. I think he’s playing more on everyone else’s stereotypes of Kentuckians/Appalachians. God knows, whenever I go on vacation to another state and I mention that I’m from Tennessee, inherently I get a knock about the fact that I shouldn’t be wearing shoes. It’s not that I think I should’nt be wearing shoes… it’s that everyone else plays Southerners like we shouldn’t be wearing shoes. Maybe he’s sick of being the joke and wants to get in on the joke for once. It’s like “you think Kentuckians shouldn’t wear shoes? I’ll give you an image of it to show you how stupid you are to perceive such a thing”. It’s a last laugh at the person who’s laughing at him.

To compare his paintings or ideology to someone who’d make fun of people with down syndrome is wrong.

Southerners are proud. I’m sure he doesn’t claim his Kentucky heritage only when it benefits him. I wouldn’t have received tons of disses over the years about my heritage if I hadn’t volunteered the info proudly. To be a self-proclaimed hillbilly is a great thing in my mind.

Tell me that, in the Ozarks, especially Table Rock Lake, you don’t find restaurant or shop signs playing on the hillbilly factor. I see that all over Tennessee. Go to Cracker Barrel and get some salt water taffy. On the box cover is images of hillbilly life.

Ryan Greis just takes his imagery a step further. He’s not simplifying his imagery in order to sell his work on a salt water taffy box.

very interesting mix of mediums…I love it

very interesting mix of mediums…I love it

“All societies are equal, without doubt.”

I’m sorry, but I have doubt. people are created equal. Culture and societies are not. I have no desire for the culture of Nazi Germany to come back nor do I find a culture where “honor killings” (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,344374,00.html) are acceptable to be equal to mine.

Even if these paintings are a way to get the last laugh, it’s still shallow and easy. It does nothing to counter such stereotypes. It’s simply contemptuous. If he’s such a “proud” southerner, why not show his neighbors in a respectable way?

“To compare his paintings or ideology to someone who’d make fun of people with down syndrome is wrong.”

How so?

Yes, I see a lot of “hillbilly” inspired art and design around me, but I rarely see people depicted in stereotypical ways. That’s what bothers me and when I do see it I find it just as derogatory as the Cleveland Indians logo. Just because it’s being done or has been done in the past doesn’t make it right.

“Ryan Greis just takes his imagery a step further. He’s not simplifying his imagery in order to sell his work on a salt water taffy box.”

You’re right. He’s selling them in art galleries for a lot more.

“All societies are equal, without doubt.”

I’m sorry, but I have doubt. people are created equal. Culture and societies are not. I have no desire for the culture of Nazi Germany to come back nor do I find a culture where “honor killings” (http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,344374,00.html) are acceptable to be equal to mine.

Even if these paintings are a way to get the last laugh, it’s still shallow and easy. It does nothing to counter such stereotypes. It’s simply contemptuous. If he’s such a “proud” southerner, why not show his neighbors in a respectable way?

“To compare his paintings or ideology to someone who’d make fun of people with down syndrome is wrong.”

How so?

Yes, I see a lot of “hillbilly” inspired art and design around me, but I rarely see people depicted in stereotypical ways. That’s what bothers me and when I do see it I find it just as derogatory as the Cleveland Indians logo. Just because it’s being done or has been done in the past doesn’t make it right.

“Ryan Greis just takes his imagery a step further. He’s not simplifying his imagery in order to sell his work on a salt water taffy box.”

You’re right. He’s selling them in art galleries for a lot more.

Let’s just agree to disagree. There’s always going to be someone that wants to write a book. There’s always someone that wants to sell a book. There’s always someone that wants to burn a book.

Bringing Nazis and people with down syndrome into this conversation is ridiculous. Comparing the Cleveland Indians logo to Hitler’s Jewish slander campaign is wrong. It’s obvious that you weigh things incorrectly.

So, when you say, in your first comment, that coming from the Ozarks, you can relate. So, to put a spin on things, I guess that makes you a racist against the Ozark population. You might never paint a so-called slanderous representation of them, BUT, you can relate to the images that Ryan Greis lays in front of you.

Or, are you saying that you can relate to the “oppression” that he lays in front of you? In this world, one’s either an oppressor or being oppressed. In politics, one’s judged either for conservative views or liberal views. No one cares about the people in the middle. People in the middle don’t make headlines. I one side needs the other side to fuel the fire.

I guess if his work wasn’t charging people in some way, it wouldn’t stand out. To stand out as an artist, I guess one needs a) have talent and b) invigorate an audience.

So, my question to you is… as a result of your emotion towards his artwork, do you think you’d go to a gallery showcase of his if it was in your area?

Another question… given your distaste for his portrayal but like for his style, how would you like to see people of Appalachian heritage portrayed in artwork? And, if there was someone to paint in that vision, do you think there would be an audience to support it?

Let’s just agree to disagree. There’s always going to be someone that wants to write a book. There’s always someone that wants to sell a book. There’s always someone that wants to burn a book.

Bringing Nazis and people with down syndrome into this conversation is ridiculous. Comparing the Cleveland Indians logo to Hitler’s Jewish slander campaign is wrong. It’s obvious that you weigh things incorrectly.

So, when you say, in your first comment, that coming from the Ozarks, you can relate. So, to put a spin on things, I guess that makes you a racist against the Ozark population. You might never paint a so-called slanderous representation of them, BUT, you can relate to the images that Ryan Greis lays in front of you.

Or, are you saying that you can relate to the “oppression” that he lays in front of you? In this world, one’s either an oppressor or being oppressed. In politics, one’s judged either for conservative views or liberal views. No one cares about the people in the middle. People in the middle don’t make headlines. I one side needs the other side to fuel the fire.

I guess if his work wasn’t charging people in some way, it wouldn’t stand out. To stand out as an artist, I guess one needs a) have talent and b) invigorate an audience.

So, my question to you is… as a result of your emotion towards his artwork, do you think you’d go to a gallery showcase of his if it was in your area?

Another question… given your distaste for his portrayal but like for his style, how would you like to see people of Appalachian heritage portrayed in artwork? And, if there was someone to paint in that vision, do you think there would be an audience to support it?

“Bringing Nazis and people with down syndrome into this conversation is ridiculous. Comparing the Cleveland Indians logo to Hitler’s Jewish slander campaign is wrong. It’s obvious that you weigh things incorrectly.”

No. You’re combining things that I put in two different arguments. One was to illustrate how cultures are not equal and the other was to show that the art is making fun of people who can’t help the way they are. The very first image, Untitled 21″x17″, in Gries’ gallery on his site shows a two-headed guy with his pecker hanging out. This is obviously part of the inbreeding theme. Someone who is a product of inbreeding can’t help it. They were born that way, and just like someone with downs, that is how they are. It’s not ridiculous.

When it comes to Native Americans, their socioeconomic status is close to that of African Americans. They both have a poverty rate of about 25% and they both have had similar class struggles throughout American history. Remember in the the movie “Ghost World” where Enid put a poster of Coon’s Chicken in her school gallery? It was taken down and she lost her scholarship because of it. I know that was in a movie, but has a lot of truth to it. You show African Americans in a negative, stereotypical way you get in trouble. Do it with Native Americans and no one minds. (It has nothing to do with Hitler’s Jewish slander campaign that was a different topic.) It supports the point in my first comment.

I am not prejudice to the Ozark population. I can relate because I have seen and experienced the same stereotypes that the artist is depicting. It doesn’t mean I agree with them. This “oppression” dialogue is too heavy for this work. It’s not oppressing anyone. It simply adds to negative stereotypes. If Greis is a “self-proclaimed hillbilly” and really lives in the world that he paints, I hope he doesn’t live in a glass house.

I am not about censorship, and if the show was near me, I’d stop by to see the work first hand. People should be free to express their views, but I should be able to openly express my opinion of them too. So, yes, I agree to disagree with you on the work. :)

How I would like to see him portray the subjects in his work? It is caricature and I don’t think that style would be suitable for a positive portrayal of Appalachian heritage. Would it have an audience? It depends on the quality of the work. I’m sure National Geographic has done some great photography on the subject, so it might be successful. Who knows? I do know human nature. It’s easier to get attention by being shocking or rude. No one pays any attention to Joe Blow changing a flat on the side of the road, but if there’s a car wreck, everyone slows down so they might get an “invigorating” glimpse of dead bodies.

“Bringing Nazis and people with down syndrome into this conversation is ridiculous. Comparing the Cleveland Indians logo to Hitler’s Jewish slander campaign is wrong. It’s obvious that you weigh things incorrectly.”

No. You’re combining things that I put in two different arguments. One was to illustrate how cultures are not equal and the other was to show that the art is making fun of people who can’t help the way they are. The very first image, Untitled 21″x17″, in Gries’ gallery on his site shows a two-headed guy with his pecker hanging out. This is obviously part of the inbreeding theme. Someone who is a product of inbreeding can’t help it. They were born that way, and just like someone with downs, that is how they are. It’s not ridiculous.

When it comes to Native Americans, their socioeconomic status is close to that of African Americans. They both have a poverty rate of about 25% and they both have had similar class struggles throughout American history. Remember in the the movie “Ghost World” where Enid put a poster of Coon’s Chicken in her school gallery? It was taken down and she lost her scholarship because of it. I know that was in a movie, but has a lot of truth to it. You show African Americans in a negative, stereotypical way you get in trouble. Do it with Native Americans and no one minds. (It has nothing to do with Hitler’s Jewish slander campaign that was a different topic.) It supports the point in my first comment.

I am not prejudice to the Ozark population. I can relate because I have seen and experienced the same stereotypes that the artist is depicting. It doesn’t mean I agree with them. This “oppression” dialogue is too heavy for this work. It’s not oppressing anyone. It simply adds to negative stereotypes. If Greis is a “self-proclaimed hillbilly” and really lives in the world that he paints, I hope he doesn’t live in a glass house.

I am not about censorship, and if the show was near me, I’d stop by to see the work first hand. People should be free to express their views, but I should be able to openly express my opinion of them too. So, yes, I agree to disagree with you on the work. :)

How I would like to see him portray the subjects in his work? It is caricature and I don’t think that style would be suitable for a positive portrayal of Appalachian heritage. Would it have an audience? It depends on the quality of the work. I’m sure National Geographic has done some great photography on the subject, so it might be successful. Who knows? I do know human nature. It’s easier to get attention by being shocking or rude. No one pays any attention to Joe Blow changing a flat on the side of the road, but if there’s a car wreck, everyone slows down so they might get an “invigorating” glimpse of dead bodies.

“The series entitled Pooptooth illustrates the artist’s fascination with his childhood in Kentucky, folklore, stereotypes, buckshot injuries and bare feet.”

That’s the description (by Ryan Greis) of his artwork. He says that his artwork illustrates his fascination with stereotypes. It doesn’t say that he supports those stereotypes or agrees with them. He’s illustrating them. They aren’t his characters. Moreso, they’re his interpretation of the characters that society stereotypes.

In his description, after the word “stereotypes”, he continues with several descriptive stereotypes, including bare feet and buckshot injuries. It’s interesting that he chooses to put those descriptors AFTER the word “stereotypes”.

Movies like “Undercover Brother” and “I’m Going To Get You, Sucka” show the stereotypes of Black culture but don’t demean. The reason people get those movies is because people know those stereotypes exist. The joke isn’t in the characters; it’s in the stereotypes that the characters portray. One doesn’t walk out of the theatre thinking that all Black people are lazy, uneducated criminals.

I think that Greis’s artwork parodies the stereotypes of culture; not the culture itself.

In the gallery section of his site, he says, “The unfinished series entitled ‘Pooptooth’ is my interpretation of the Kentucky culture STEREOTYPES I was exposed to growing up.”

“The series entitled Pooptooth illustrates the artist’s fascination with his childhood in Kentucky, folklore, stereotypes, buckshot injuries and bare feet.”

That’s the description (by Ryan Greis) of his artwork. He says that his artwork illustrates his fascination with stereotypes. It doesn’t say that he supports those stereotypes or agrees with them. He’s illustrating them. They aren’t his characters. Moreso, they’re his interpretation of the characters that society stereotypes.

In his description, after the word “stereotypes”, he continues with several descriptive stereotypes, including bare feet and buckshot injuries. It’s interesting that he chooses to put those descriptors AFTER the word “stereotypes”.

Movies like “Undercover Brother” and “I’m Going To Get You, Sucka” show the stereotypes of Black culture but don’t demean. The reason people get those movies is because people know those stereotypes exist. The joke isn’t in the characters; it’s in the stereotypes that the characters portray. One doesn’t walk out of the theatre thinking that all Black people are lazy, uneducated criminals.

I think that Greis’s artwork parodies the stereotypes of culture; not the culture itself.

In the gallery section of his site, he says, “The unfinished series entitled ‘Pooptooth’ is my interpretation of the Kentucky culture STEREOTYPES I was exposed to growing up.”

This is awesome! It’s like a Rube Goldberg machine coming to life! It started as a funny and talented illustration of Pooptooth and has become a huge machine of complicated opinions.

This is awesome! It’s like a Rube Goldberg machine coming to life! It started as a funny and talented illustration of Pooptooth and has become a huge machine of complicated opinions.

Life is as simple or complicated as people make it. Art’s the same way.

Great Rube Goldberg analogy, Gdizzle! How to set off a time bomb by painting a hillbilly. Rube Goldberg (or MacGyver) would be proud, right?

Life is as simple or complicated as people make it. Art’s the same way.

Great Rube Goldberg analogy, Gdizzle! How to set off a time bomb by painting a hillbilly. Rube Goldberg (or MacGyver) would be proud, right?

Let’s simplify. How about this: If Greis’ work is satire, what is the corrective intent or how does it try to reform such stereotypes? If I could see this, then I think I could enjoy it more.

Let’s simplify. How about this: If Greis’ work is satire, what is the corrective intent or how does it try to reform such stereotypes? If I could see this, then I think I could enjoy it more.

I don’t think that he intends to offend. I don’t think that he necessarily takes precautions as to not offend.

I don’t think reforming stereotypes is his goal either. It doesn’t seem like he’s trying to tackle or solve anything. Not all artists set out to prove a point or speak on anyone’s behalf. And that’s fine. I think that spokespeople are many times too outspoken and misrepresenting.

Maybe getting a laugh is his goal. Not at anyone’s expense. I don’t see anyone in his paintings that I recognize; political figures, celebrities, etc. His characters speak to me because I can recognize those characteristics in people I know. And, to me, THAT’S funny.

I don’t think that he intends to offend. I don’t think that he necessarily takes precautions as to not offend.

I don’t think reforming stereotypes is his goal either. It doesn’t seem like he’s trying to tackle or solve anything. Not all artists set out to prove a point or speak on anyone’s behalf. And that’s fine. I think that spokespeople are many times too outspoken and misrepresenting.

Maybe getting a laugh is his goal. Not at anyone’s expense. I don’t see anyone in his paintings that I recognize; political figures, celebrities, etc. His characters speak to me because I can recognize those characteristics in people I know. And, to me, THAT’S funny.

Maybe I’m just weird. I think I’m the only person in the world who didn’t find Napoleon Dynamite very funny either.

Maybe I’m just weird. I think I’m the only person in the world who didn’t find Napoleon Dynamite very funny either.

That’s ok. I know a guy who didn’t think the movie Office Space was funny. But, he’s never held an office position in his life. Oh well.

It was fun debating with you.

That’s ok. I know a guy who didn’t think the movie Office Space was funny. But, he’s never held an office position in his life. Oh well.

It was fun debating with you.

Your site is the best – very useful, thank you.

Your site is the best – very useful, thank you.